Mouth of Sauron

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laurelindhe ilmarin
Posts: 1314

Mouth of Sauron

Post#1 » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:35 pm

Well, I am ashamed to say this, but I still do not have the SEE! **Gasp** :elfshocked:

Even so, I will say that PJ's omission of many characters and addition of others is what draws the most attention to his and Fran and Phillipa's errors...I can't wait to see what you're talking about, Turin!

Is there anyone else who has seen this ridiculous monstrousity?

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Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

Mouth of Sauron

Post#2 » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:57 pm

Ok who here has seen the ROTK extended version? Well i got it for christmas because i heard it had some importants scenes that they left out in theatre version. The biggest part i was looking forward to was The Mouth of Sauron. Tolkein made the dude sound too cool.

At its head there rode a tall and evil shape, mounted upon a black horse, if horse it was; for it was huge and hideous, and its face was a frightful mask, more like a skull that a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame. The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man. The lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dúr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: 'I am the Mouth of Sauron.' But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenoreans...


I guess The Mouth of Sauron was, yet another attempt of PJ trying to be a comedian, because I was in awe with how comical that scene was done... Yet another reason for me to gripe with PJ, why change something that didn't need to be changed?

I don't know what PJ's Mouth of Sauron was suppose to be, but it looked like a Star Wars creature to me. PJ clearly emphasized on the MOUTH part, terrible job at best! His every feature was corny, everything from his ridiculous helmet, to his horse... did i mention his mouth yet? His "hideous" horse looked like a pony. The Nazgúl's horses in the first movie looked closer to the part... Where was the flaming eyes and nostrils?

He was suppose to be a Black Númenorean, although i'm unaware if Tolkien meant black to be a metaphor for evil, or was his skin tone suppose to be black?

Anyway if i was PJ i would be embarresed with that character he created, because I could have done better. The black actor who played 'King Pin' in spiderman would have fit the job much better.

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Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

Mouth of Sauron

Post#3 » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:14 pm

Well, I am ashamed to say this, but I still do not have the SEE! **Gasp**

No worries, i just saw it last night for my first time... well most of it, i have another hour left.


I would go to the chatroom and talk about it with some members but i'm, "voluntarily," taking exactly 360 minutes of leave; as of a few mintues ago... not too sure why

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

Mouth of Sauron

Post#4 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:13 am

The black actor who played 'King Pin' in spiderman

Don't you mean the Kingpin in Daredevil? That would be Michael Clark Duncan. Giant of a man he is!
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

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gothmog lord of balrogs
Posts: 35

Mouth of Sauron

Post#5 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:59 am

It was a little hoakey but all in all I didn't think that the Mouth was done too poorly. I don't think that it was supposed to be comical as much as it was supposed to be an afront to the tradition of parlay.
Question: What is best in life? Answer: To crush the enemy to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of the women.

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Elfstone
Posts: 1502

Mouth of Sauron

Post#6 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:15 pm

I thought the Mouth of Sauron scene was okay, but I was disappointed with certain aspects. The scene would have been so much more effective IMHO if PJ and Co. had stayed closer to what’s actually in the book (but isn’t that the case with everything we pick on).

The thing that bugged me the most was Aragorn chopping the Mouth’s head off. They should have had the Mouth taunt, and then go back behind the Black Gate, much more effective, and dramatic. We didn’t need the "Hollywood" action chop there; it just didn’t work for me. I'd rather at least have the Mouth in the film than not though.
:elf:
"I would have the Ring-bearer bring the crown to me, and let Mithrandir set it upon my head, if he will; for he has been the mover of all that has been accomplished, and this is his victory." Elessar

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Mouth of Sauron

Post#7 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:47 pm

The thing that bugged me the most was Aragorn chopping the Mouth’s head off.

Oh my god... :mad2: "There can be only one Numenoran", i guess...

I'm happy Santa didn't bring me ROTK SEE for christmas. A bit too much Conan the Barbarian for me.

Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Mouth of Sauron

Post#8 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:38 pm

The thing that bugged me the most was Aragorn chopping the Mouth’s head off.
When in Parley Mode, it is very unchivalrous, undiplomatic even, to remove the head from your opponent's herald and ambassador, though he mock you with great insolence. 'Tis better to just spit in his eye, for then you anger only him, rather than all his assembled soldiery. - The Art of War as reckoned by Grondmaster
'Share and enjoy'

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Mouth of Sauron

Post#9 » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:40 am

First time I saw him, I was a bit disapointed.... he was different to how I had expected. His horse apart, there is not much of a discription of him.

At its head there rode a tall and evil shape, mounted upon a black horse, if horse it was; for it was huge and hideous, and its face was a frightful mask, more like a skull that a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame. The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man. The lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dúr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: 'I am the Mouth of Sauron.' But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenoreans...


Black Numenorians are not black. They are of the same kin as the Numenorians of Gondor. They were pure Numenorian stock. There was later mixing with the Haradrim to create the Corsairs, who most likely would have been of darker skin, but the Black in Black Numenorian refers to their hearts rather than their skin. The Mouth should have been white, therefore, be tall and evil shape, and be robed in black with a lofty helm. Not a lot to go on. PJ certainly made his helm lofty.....

What really stands out with him is his mouth. That's quite a mouth.... more than I was expecting. I must say though, before seeing him he was the main thing I wanted to see in the extended version. When I watched it again the next day, having seen him, he was still the part I most wanted to see. Personally, I like how he was portrayed, but like Elfstone, not happy with the way Aragorn broke the parley.

What I find strangest about him is the way he moves. It is almost as though he is blind, turning as he does to sound. That part made him seem alien rather than human, and I think is what makes me slightly disappointed with him. In my opinion, he could have been made a lot worse.

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Mouth of Sauron

Post#10 » Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:47 am

I wasn't too keen on the 'mouth'. It looked like a cartoon to me but I did enjoy watching the extras where they showed how it was made and the thinking behind it. TMoS was the last villain and had to be formidable and scary so they made him blind. We know he wasn't blind, Gandalf looked into his eyes. There isn't much to go on in the book other than the brief description and odd bits like

His face was twisted with amazement and anger to the likeness of some wild beast that, as it crouches on its prey, is smitten on the muzzle with a stinging rod. Rage filled him and his mouth slavered, and shapeless sounds of fury came strangling from his throat.


It seems to be the usual thing that words work in our own imaginations but not when transferred to film. It all has to be bigger, bolder and more defined because the visual mediium of film doesn't allow us to follow our own imagination while watching it. We have to be locked onto that screen and the images before us.

I agree that Aragorn should not have killed him in the way it was shown. Dishonourable. I would have preferred to see Aragorn and TMofS battling it out together rather than Aragorn killing him.

PJ had a problem though - to make this final battle as nail biting as he could. The book works wonderfully as a book but it seems he thought it wasn't right for a film. Was he right? I don't know. When I read the book I see it all happening and it is spectacular.

In the book we don't see what happens to TMofS once he turns and goes back through the Black Gate. Perhaps one of the eagles ate him?

I love the eagles! It's a beautiful scene in the book. Descendants of Thorondor! I'm thankful that PJ didn't stick a crown on Gwaihir's head to show us that this was no ordinary eagle.

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