We have established that you disagree with Carl Hostetter, Virumor, and me.
Finally! And if you really speak so highly of Hostetter... CUT :moderator: No public advertising of other forums, please. Try sending a PM. :moderator:
Lord of All wrote: The dialog in the film says that Pippin in the film will see White shores and Beyond after he dies. Nothing technical it just implicates what Tolkien himself has left us to conclude.
Your quotes prove my own point.
Elves are summoned to Mandos when they die. If they can refuse the summons and remain in Middle-earth this would imply that they do not simply automatically appear in Mandos.
It implies that they can accept the summons and go to Mandos. It doesn't imply that they accpet the summons and suddenly appear there.
Otherwise if they refused the summons do you think Mandos would just say 'Ok I will send you back then'?
All we have actual proof for is that Elves can choose to go to Mandos. We do not have any proof that they arrive there in some supernatural way. Therefore we MUST assume they get there the good ole' fasion way - by travelling there. Got proof that they arrive there in some other more unusual way then show it.
So if we have established that much (and I **** [Mind your language! Virumor] well hope so by now) then we can also assume the most likely outcome is that the spirits of the Men arrive there in the same way. Therefore proving my, and Gandalf's point.
Pippin: I didn't think it would end this way.
Gandalf: End? No the journey doesn't end here. [u]Death is just another path. One which we all must take. The grey rain curtain of this world folds back and all turns to silver glass... (Then you see it..[/u].
Pippin: See what gandalf?
Gandalf: White shores and beyond. A far green country with a swift sunrise.
Pippin: Well thats not so bad.
Gandalf: No it isn't...
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