Gandalf's staff

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ladyoflegolas
Posts: 504

Gandalf's staff

Post#1 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:19 pm

In the special edition of ROTK...the witch king breaks Gandalf's staff...then when Gandalf is leaving Middle Earth..he has it again.

When did he get it back?

I'm sure I know the answer...just can't think of it right now...

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gandalf-olorin
Posts: 481

Gandalf's staff

Post#2 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:30 pm

This is one of the worst things about that last move, Extended Edition, and it is my pet peeve of all time. Gandalf's staff broken by a mortal! It never happened in the book at all, so of course there was no problem with Gandalf then having his staff in hand at the Grey Havens. But in the movie, I asked (in the review I did) how he got it back--gorilla glue? Staffs-R-Us? The wizards' store at Amazon? It's just another example of PJ departing too far from the book. The original confrontation of Gandalf v. Angmar at the gate would have been compelling enough.

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gud daedheloth
Posts: 334

Gandalf's staff

Post#3 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:12 pm

the wraiths arent mortals

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gandalf-olorin
Posts: 481

Gandalf's staff

Post#4 » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:13 pm

But the Nazgul are men, nevertheless. They are the wraiths of men, not elves, not Maiar, etc. So the idea that he can break Gandalf's staff is ludicrous. Tolkien didn't want that kind of a confrontation anyway, or he would have finished the actual meeting at the Gate differently.

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leelee
Posts: 2288

Gandalf's staff

Post#5 » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:40 pm

I do not believe any one including the Witch King could defeat Gandalf, especially after his resurrection. Gandalf was powerfilled only second to Saruman and then ahead of him after Saruman's defeat and the subsequent breaking of his staff by Gandalf at Isengarde.
It says clearly that this angelic being came with his full powers shrouded, he was not to use them except in extreme emergency situations, but he could use them. So I don't believe that the Witchking could do that whatsoever.

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Lord Of All
Posts: 633

Gandalf's staff

Post#6 » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:44 pm

I admit that the Witchking (not Angmar - that is the name of his realm but I know what you mean) could not have broken Gandalf's staff but its not a luicrous concept.
If we take them in the original states the idear that a Man (which the Witchking is becuase Elves and Dwarves cannot turn into wraiths) could break some powerful item of an Ainur is absurd. BUT take these into consideration:

Gandalf was confined to phisical form in the world Without and could not extend his powers to there full potential.

The Witchking was a great man in his time. If Glorfindel could defeat a Balrog which are Maiar then its not hard to believe that a great man could, at least, stand a chance of doing the same.

The Witchking had huge amounts of power given to his original supply by Sauron (who was undoubtedly more powerful than Gandalf in his original state before or after he made the Ring) making him far more dangerous. For example when Gandalf held off the Wraiths at weathertop the Witchking was clearly a defeatable foe. But by the end of the War of the Ring he had grown even greater. He also seems to grow greater as his master grows in power also.

As I say its doubtful the WK could defeat Gandalf but its not a ludicrous concept.

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Lord Of All
Posts: 633

Gandalf's staff

Post#7 » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:46 pm

Sauron was more powerful than either Gandalf. Also your forgetting that after the Balrogs defeat the Witchking was the powerfullest being in Arda, save the Istari. He may have been able to put up more of a stand than people give him credit for. He probabaly couldn't have defeated Gandalf admittedly but its not impossible.

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Gandalf's staff

Post#8 » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:39 pm

So I don't believe that the Witchking could do that whatsoever.

Of course the fiend couldn't do that to Gandalf the White. The idea alone is laughable.

He wouldn't even be able to break Gandalf the Grey's staff; note that Gandalf the Grey fought off 5 Nazgûl alone on Weathertop and defeated a Balrog.

The Nazgûl's only power is fear; (s)he who does not fear them, cannot be defeated by them - granted, though, if this person possesses the necessary combat prowess. Did Gandalf fear the Nazgûl? I think not.

Extrapolating from this, Aragorn would also have been able to defeat the Witch-King of Angmar with Andúril.

On a less serious note, the Witch-King was beaten by a GIRL, for Pete's sake... so he's clearly a weenie who would stand no chance whatsoever against the Wizard of wizards. So why the argument? :tongueelf:
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Gandalf's staff

Post#9 » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:13 pm

On a less serious note, the Witch-King was beaten by a GIRL, for Pete's sake... so he's clearly a weenie who would stand no chance whatsoever against the Wizard of wizards. So why the argument? :tongueelf:

Because, it is more civilized than going to a football game and acting like a hooligan; though there are some (your's truly not in their number) who might consider that to be more fun. :elfbiggrin:
'Share and enjoy'

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ladyoflegolas
Posts: 504

Gandalf's staff

Post#10 » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:14 pm

Yes...it was a strange thing to put in the movie, I mean..it made Gandalf look really weak.

But here's another question...in the original version of the movie, does Gandalf just all of a sudden not have his staff? I really don't remember...


Was Saurman more powerful than the Wraiths?

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