Gollum in the Undying Lands

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Sian
Posts: 1300

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#1 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:33 pm

I've been gone for a long time being busy with sewing things that took a lot of concentration and time but while I was busy I had a thought: Gollum died in the fires of Mount Doom but if he had not, if the ring had been destroyed without his being killed, would he have been entitled to go to the Undying Lands with the other Ringbearers? I can't imagine that he would have wanted to go but what would the Elves and the Valar have thought?

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arath
Posts: 661

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#2 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:49 pm

He would have most certainly not been granted access to such a sacred place.
He was not wholely evil of cource and there was yet a change that he could be healed but being lived so long i think that sadly he would have died the second when the ring was destroyed.

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Thorin Oakenshield
Posts: 4593

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#3 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:06 am

I think he was destined to die with the ring. But if he didn't he certainly wouldn't be allowed to go to Valinor thought he might try to follow the grey ship disguised as a log! :elkgrin: :orcgin:

Anyway I think that he would absolutely refuse to board a ship where there would be fierce elves with bright eyesses!
The Old that is Strong does not Wither.

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Amarië
Posts: 2785

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#4 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:19 am

Gollum couldn't survive without the Ring, it had kept him alive far beyond his natural life span. He lived only because of it. Bilbo too was kept young by the Ring, but he hadn't been kept alive beyond what was natural.
"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#5 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:25 am

Bilbo stayed young while he had the ring and after he gave it to Frodo he started an accelerated aging; when the ring was destroyed he looked his actual age.

Gollum was born TA c. 2430 and took the Ring from Deagol in TA 2463 (according to Appendix B to LotR.) This would make him about 589 years old when the Ring and he were destroyed. I believe had he not gone into the fiery Crack of Doom with the Ring, but had stayed alive with Frodo and Sam, after it and Frodo's finger somehow slipped out of his hand, then his physical body would have started reverting towards his actual age and he would soon have died a desiccated husk full of failed organs. Almost like a staked vampire, but not yet crumbling to dust. Much more better the Professor's ending. :elfbiggrin:

He would never have been allowed into the West, because he had gained the Ring through murder.

If hobbits are of mankind, and Gollum was a hobbit, does this make him one of, if not the oldest Man?
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Sian
Posts: 1300

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#6 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:35 pm

Ah, yes, you all have pointed out things that I forgot about. I suppose he was the oldest man, Grond..

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#7 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:21 pm

For more on the subject of the oldest man, see The Most Long Lived Man.

Meanwhile back to Gollum and: would he have, could he have been invited to Valinor, if he had.....
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arath
Posts: 661

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#8 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:29 pm

i believe that smeagol if he truly could have been cured would have love the ocean and he would go whit the elves even though he long hated them. for i believe that the ring used ts power on gollum in such a way that it inspired great hatred torwards elves even thought smeagol himself didn't actually hate the elves... he might have feared them thought.

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ammornil
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Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#9 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:10 am

The scar of the ring left on Golum's/Smeagol's soul can not be easily undone. Not even by the powers of the Valar. In all their might they can not change the nature of a creature. Perhaps only Illuvatar could restore what once was to be. Valimar is not place for murderers anyway I believe.

I wonder was it a divine plan for Golum to be the one to actually destroy the ring? Gandalf felt something and said so to Frodo in Moria.

And one last thing to ask: Suppose Smeagol was granted place in Valimar in the West, what shape would his restired soul have- Smeagol or Golum?
Nolwe ar alcar >> Wisdom and Glory! Wisdom is in words, Glory- in deeds.
All of this is personal opinion and understanding. For your own opinion read the books written by J. R. R. Tolkien.

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arath
Posts: 661

Gollum in the Undying Lands

Post#10 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:25 am

Smeagol.
Gollum was the twisted evil that the ring had infused in him.

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