Arwens life tied 2 ring?

saltslasher
Posts: 20

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#1 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:07 pm

Elrond tells Aragorn that Arwen's life is tied to ring the of power.

I don't understand how this works.

First, Elrond, is over 3000 years old, cause he fought in the battle on the plains of Dagorlad on the hills of mount doom in the beginning of the movie, where they sum up alot of events in like 5 minutes. But he doesn't get on the boat to the west with the rest, and his life is not decided by the ring, or is it? He doesn't seem to be dying, but still seems to be immortal?

I read that Arwen was over 2000 years old when she first meet Aragon, so she is just a little younger than her father.

Anyways, Elrond tells Aragon that she is dying and that she will not long survive the evil that spreads from mordor.

The light from the even star is failing, and as Sauron's power grows, Arwens weakens, and then says her life is tied to the fate of the ring.

Was Elrond just generalizing, cause obviously everyone is going to grow weaker if the rings survives and everyone would be in a fight for their lives if Sauron gets it back.

But is she truely tied to the ring, cause i don't understand how this works, cause the way i understand it, she would die if the ring doesnt. What would of happened if frodo failed, and the ring didn't get destroyed, would she of died?

I also didn't understand the thing with the Arwen and Elrond. They are not from middle earth from what the extras said, and they are thousands of years old.

If Arwen stays and doesn't go on the boat, does she give up being mortal, or is Elrond talking about the mortal lifes close to her that will die?

They didn't really cover a lot of this stuff, or i didn't catch it. I just didn't understand why these things would effect Arwen and not Elrond?

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Fornad
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Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#2 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:22 am

Arwen's life is not physically tied to the fate of the Ring, but what Elrond meant is that she intends to stay in M.E and share Aragorn's fate - and that fate is pretty much guaranteed to be death if Sauron gets the Ring back.

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leelee
Posts: 2293

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#3 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:44 pm


I suppose in a way every creature that lived in Middle-Earth at the time of this hideous evil and attempt to cover the earth in second darkness , all of their lives were tied to the Ring, but only because they could at any time be erased from the face of Middle-Earth by one of Sauron's henchmen. But Lady Arwen chose a mortal's existance, therefor instantly facing a mortal's death,the being removed from the circle of the earth at any time. She could have become ill in a way that no one not even dada could have saved her, or crushed in a fall, anything that faces we mortals. The Ring itself could not determine her lifespan. Ultimately all things were in the hand of Illuvatar and as Gandalf intimated to Frodo, Biilbo was meant to find it and so too were you.' Just meaning that the strange encounters and things unforseen that happened in all lives on Middle-Earth including Arwen were ultimately in the hands of the Creator. So I don't know about it.



alana
Posts: 156

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#4 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:30 am


There are many , many issues here...some which I am not at all sure about....



The first thing to say is that they changed things from the book.....in the film they were flirting with the idea that Arwen somehow passed her "life essence" to Frodo...this idea , as far as i remember, what was not in the book.



At the ford of Bruinen , when it appears Frodo is dying, Aren says..."whatever Grace is given to me..let it pass to him.."



This idea was not in the book..Arwen was not even at the Ford Of Bruinen.



The idea seemed to be that Arwen gave up her immortality so that Frodo could live.....but later on it seemed they were suggesting she gave up her immortality by staying with Aragorn in Middle Earth, but I am not sure even this is correct...??



I think maybe people are getting confused with the fate Beren & Luthien.....Luthien chose to be mortal, so that she could be with Beren, and go wherever mortals go when they die.



But my understanding was, this was not the fate of Arwen....



My interpretation from the Book was that Arwen's tragedy was that Aragorn would die, but she would continue to live through all the ages of the world alone....



In the film , they seemed to get in a real muddle with this......one minute Elrond is saying that Arwen



is dying...the next minute we see a vision of Aragorn's future, (presumably Hundreds of years in the future) ..and not only is Arwen apparently still alive & healthy, but she looks as young as ever....which is correct....but how does it tie in with Elrond saying she is dying?.....and how does it tie in with the general perception that she has somehow become "mortal"?......



Have I got confused here ?...have we all got confused...?



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galin
Posts: 1369

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#5 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:18 am


I don't know about the film, but since the book has been raised, Arwen was Half-elven and given a choice of fate, just as her brothers were. She always had this choice before her -- unlike Luthien, who yet was given the chance to escape deathlessness.



Arwen chose a mortal fate because of Aragorn, and ultimately died after he did, in Lothlorien.



 



The short version anyway



alana
Posts: 156

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#6 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:25 am


Yes, I think I understand now, Galin; you are right....i think it was the film that confused me....they have gone for this idea of Arwen passing her "life force" to Frodo..I dont think that idea was in the book...?



thanks for straightening me out, Galin......



alana
Posts: 156

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#7 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:25 am


Yes, I think I understand now, Galin; you are right....i think it was the film that confused me....they have gone for this idea of Arwen passing her "life force" to Frodo..I dont think that idea was in the book...?



thanks for straightening me out, Galin......



alana
Posts: 156

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#8 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:10 am


Hey Guys......111 posts....I am Eleventy-one today!!....it is also my real birthday....spooky??....mmm 19...getting old now.....hey, do I get a cake??...haha.....



elanorraine
Posts: 306

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#9 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:47 am


The only think in the book that suggested or hinted that Arwen had anything to do with passing anything on to Frodo was when she gave Frodo a gem to wear around his neck to comfort him in those times after he had lost the ring when he still "wanted" it (the book implies the ring is like a highly addictive drug) - and Arwen implies that she is giving Frodo "her" spot on the boat into the West.



But this is not anywhere near the idea that Arwen gives the elvish part of her life-force to Frodo to save him at the fords of Bruinen.  When Frodo gets on the boat to go West he's not going into eternal life like Gandalf and the rest of the Elves who are on the same boat.  Frodo and Bilbo are going West in order to be healed from the influence of the ring - think of it as a sort of advanced detox - something that couldn't be done in Middle-Earth - and then they will die and go wherever regular mortal hobbits and men go when they die, just as they would have had they both stayed in Middle Earth.  



In the book, Elrond is "half-elven" (he's really a mixture of human, elf, and maia) and has been given the choice to take on the immortal life of the elves or the mortal life of Men.  (He chooses elvish life, his brother chose Human life - albeit he gets a longer life span than most "regular" humans - and Aragorn is a many-generations-removed descendant of this brother.)  



I'm not sure why, but Elrond's children (who are called "half-elven" but whose mother is fully elvish) also get a version of Elrond's choice, while Elrond's brother's children get no such choice.  Arwen and her brothers will have elvish long-life in Middle Earth so long as Elrond is in Middle Earth - but when Elrond decides to head home into the West, then his kids have a choice to make: either they go West with him and remain immortal Elves or they stay in Middle Earth and live very long, but eventually mortal, Human lives.


alana
Posts: 156

Arwens life tied 2 ring?

Post#10 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:04 am


Thanks, Elannoraine... I think this is the most concise summary so far.....another example of where they changed things in the film & confused everybody.....I sound like I am morphing into a purist...haha...I must say though, Aragorn's "funeral" scene in the film...where Arwen is grieving for him...that is spookily well done....



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