Some Questions

gablo
Posts: 13

Some Questions

Post#1 » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:00 pm

When an elf dies he/she go's to the halls of mandos, but what form would the dead elves take, as presumably their spirit would leave their body; and is there some kind of barrier between the halls and outside to prevent living elves of Aman entering. What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world.

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virumor
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Post#2 » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:16 pm

When an elf dies he/she go's to the halls of mandos, but what form would the dead elves take, as presumably their spirit would leave their body;

I think they would take no form, and just be a spirit in the Halls of Mandos.

and is there some kind of barrier between the halls and outside to prevent living elves of Aman entering.

Yes, there has to be some barrier. I think the person who built the Halls of Mandos knows what barrier. I'll ask Námo next time i see him.

What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world.

Maybe they play scrabble, or twister. Or happy hippo.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

gablo
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Post#3 » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:16 pm

Jenga?

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valedhelgwath
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Post#4 » Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:44 am

What do they do in these halls , i bet theyre real bored waiting for the end of the world


They sit in silent contemplation, thinking on the mistakes of their lives, until Mandos feels their spirits are again ready to leave the Halls and be reborn. For some this is only a short time (Finrod Felagund and Glorfindel) for others it will only occur at the End (Feanor). Some actually never wish to leave the Halls (Finwe's first wife, Miriel).

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floyd_n_milan
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Post#5 » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:56 am


They sit in silent contemplation, thinking on the mistakes of their lives, until Mandos feels their spirits are again ready to leave the Halls and be reborn. For some this is only a short time (Finrod Felagund and Glorfindel) for others it will only occur at the End (Feanor). Some actually never wish to leave the Halls (Finwe's first wife, Miriel).


I know about Glorfindel, what about the others? Where is it mentioned that Finrod or Feanor were "reborn"? Speaking of Feanor and the End, is it the bettle where Morgoth gets killed by Turin? In that case, if Turin was a human, how come he was there?

P.S. Can someone provide the referances as to when Finrod was "reborn" and possibly Feanor too?

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Túrin Turambar
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Post#6 » Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:30 pm

ya i'm very intrested in hearing about Finrod's ressurection. I have read that Túrin slays Morgoth in the end, makybe Eru sends him down to earth for the final battle... Who else has truly received that much cruelty by the will of Morgoth? <---rhetorical question ;)

I do remember reading somewhere it meantions Túrin and Niniel, in Valinor, wash themselves in some sort of magical fountain/bath, and they are cleansed of all their pains on middle earth.

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valedhelgwath
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Post#7 » Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:09 pm

Where is it mentioned that Finrod or Feanor were "reborn"?


In the case of Finrod, it says just after his death in the Silmarillion, Of Beren and Luthien...

They buried the body of Felagund upon the hilltop of his own isle, and it was clean again; and the green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained unviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under the destroying seas. But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.


Of Feanor it is said...

Then he died; but he had neither burial or tomb, for so fiery was his spirit that as it sped his body fell to ash, and was borne away like smoke;and his likeness has never again appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the Halls of Mandos.


One of Tolkien's earlier writings did mention the Final Battle prior to the End. In this battle the Halls of Mandos open and all within (including Men) pour onto the battlefield to face Morgoth and his minions. In this battle Turin gets to slay Morgoth, and after the battle, Feanor returns the Silmarils to the Valar.

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bugyfeanor
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Post#8 » Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:26 pm

I don't think it's a matter of boredom for the Elves; after all, they have to comprehend where they went wrong and try fixing those wrongs. When they do that, they're released. So, in the case of Feanor, it's quite understandable that he's kept there 'till the Final Battle! *sighs*

As for Turin, I think he has an extraordinary doom and he's the most suited person to avenge all the evil Morgoth brought to Men.
Evil may yet be good to have been ... and yet remain evil. (Silmarillion)

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valedhelgwath
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Post#9 » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:16 am

Speaking of Feanor and the End, is it the bettle where Morgoth gets killed by Turin? In that case, if Turin was a human, how come he was there?


Sorry, I never got back to answering this one.... How come Turin was where? The Halls of Mandos?

Sometimes there is a misconception that only Elves go to the Halls of Mandos. In fact both Elves, Men and possibly Dwarves go to the Houses of the Dead, but they are kept in separate Halls. It is after their Time of Awaiting that is different.

When Elves are deemed to be ready, they have the chance to return in body to Aman. Men's fate is not tied to Arda, so after their Time of Awaiting, their spirits pass West out of Arda. It is said that after the End, they get to live with Iluvatar, and take part in the Second Great Music. I am not sure what happens between their time of leaving the Halls and the End; whether they travel to Iluvatar's abode immediately, wait in some sort of cosmic Limbo, or whether their Time of Awaiting literally only ends at the End. It is said, however, that at the time of the final battle, the Halls of Mandos are opened and armies of Men and Elves get to fight the hordes of evil. Whether this is all Men who ever existed, or just those who could not leave Mandos without one final fight (Turin etc), I'm not certain.

If Dwarves do get to spend time in the Halls of Mandos, they do not get to leave until the End. Their task is to help Aule rebuild the broken world after the final battle.

I hope that goes some way towards answering your question, Floyd.

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rhapsody
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Post#10 » Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:31 am

When Elves are deemed to be ready, they have the chance to return in body to Aman. Men's fate is not tied to Arda, so after their Time of Awaiting, their spirits pass West out of Arda.


Val. Where did you read this exactly? I always understood that after the men passed the halls of Mandos they go beyond Arda, never to return. That is the gift of Illuvatar to men.. right?

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