Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

How long have you got to write it in Tommy? Cos this could take a while to think about.
Right now I can tell you that it is THE original fantasy novel of which all others pale in comparison and are just cheap rip offs from. That it was written during the second world war and that it is not supposed to be evocative of any period of time at all, as it is a FANTASY novel about nowhere real. However it does evoke an image of pre-war middle england with it's servants (Samwise) and its incessant use of "dark" and "black" warriors as forces of evil.
Source: My own brain, despite it not being the most helpful info ever. :)
http://www.plasticsquirrel.co.uk for all your bizarre music and musings needs

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Tommy:

The Lord of the Rings is the grandfather of the modern fantasy novel genre, and as the Plastic Squirrel has said, it was written during WW II, actually during and on both sides of, from 1936 through 1949. (Use Tolkien's Forward to the Ballantine editions as a reference for dates and also for the postAuthorID's statement that it has no intended meaning and is neither allegorical nor topical).

The epic's time period can conveniently be set in the period before the last Ice Age (some 15000 plus years ago) and can be said to have taken place in the vicinity of Northwestern Europe. (This can help explain why none of the artifacts of the elven/dwarven/human civilizations have been found by archeologists and possibly why only humans remain (in any known numbers), all the other non-aquatic sentient beings, having either died off or gone into hiding. (Of course as the Plastic Squirrel has, time and again, been want to say, "Its not real for *****'s sake! Its only a book!!"; you should take the forgoing with a grain of salt.) :D

Hope this gives you a little more to work with. ;)
'Share and enjoy'

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TomBombadillo
Posts: 2746

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Thanks you guys, that helped me out a bit indeed. :D
Plastic: I have till next sunday to finish it, I have to hand it in on monday! :o
Denial is not a river in Africa.

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rednell
Posts: 1798

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

If you have time Tom, I suggest Tom Shippey's book JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century. He addresses this topic as does the National Geographic film Lord of the rings:beyond the movie. As already mentioned the book was written during the 2nd world war. Tolkien did not like any reference to his work as "allegory", however, he would accept the term "applicability". This is significant as Tolkien perferred to leave the interpretations to the reader according to his environment rather than limited to what we suppose influenced the postAuthorID's writing. The themes in Lord of the Rings can apply to the early 20th century, the wars and the raping of the land by industrialization just as they can be applied throughout the world today. That is the neat thing about Tolkien and "applicability", it is timeless. Tolkien drew on his extensive knowledge of mythology and medieval history for the physical settings in the book. Good vs Evil, a timeless theme. One that haunted Tolkien, no doubt, through witnessing 2 horrific world wars.
Hope this makes some sense. I'm not good at writing off the top of my head in a forum, like this.
Good luck on the essay.
Rednell

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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Couldn't have put it better myself Rednell. Good one. :)
http://www.plasticsquirrel.co.uk for all your bizarre music and musings needs

Eryan
Posts: 845

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

As for reflecting any particular time, I think that Tolkien's world has no consistency. I would not agree that it is a story set somewhere in the "real" time, before the Ice Age... Look at all these Victorian paraphernalia found in the Shire - such as the famous umbrella of Lobelia Sackvlle-Baggins! Or a letter from Gandalf (shown by Barliman in Bree): it has been written on a paper, wasn't it? (Bilbo also is writing on paper when in Rivendell...). And the quetsion of tobacco and famous "taters" (potatoes) of Gamgees: they are New World plants! In particular, potatoes did NOT grow in our Old World in these times - they started to be cultivated here fairly recently!
I'd say that the time of LOTR is a dream-time, and its reality is a dream-reality, the reality of our "internal world". Tolkien himself compared all experiences to leaves falling on a leaf mould, and then fermenting to feed the germ of the story... nn[Edited on 9/4/2002 by Eryan]

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gnampie
Posts: 275

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I totally agree with you Eryan!

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rednell
Posts: 1798

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Nicely put Eryan. The interesting thing about fantasy is that there are no absolute expectations of reality, internal or external. When reading fantasy we must also take into account the perception of the external reality, which as with the dream timescape (internal reality), reveals how the reader applies the events of the novel to what he perceives his physical, political and social surroundings are. I really think this is what Tolkien was trying to achieve and why he disliked the term "allegory".
Great discussion.
Rednell

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I know its not real. Middle Earth's time has no place in our history; however, it might be located in a parallel universe, but I doubt if anyone will buy this either. :D
'Share and enjoy'

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TomBombadillo
Posts: 2746

Simple question (this is pretty urgent, btw)

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Why not, actually? We've bought everything already, I guess. :D
Denial is not a river in Africa.

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