what happened to the valar

jimmy
Posts: 12

what happened to the valar

Post#1 » Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:43 am

im curious what happened to the valar in the time of the ring and why didn't the help aragorn or were they about to do something im confused if you would know and you would tell me id be happy any theory works if you have even the slightest idea please tell me not knowing is sad :sad:

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gibbon
Posts: 138

what happened to the valar

Post#2 » Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:45 am

My thoughts are that they wanted the men to sort it out themselves, as the weak men attacked Valinor and believed Sauron's lies over them.

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elrose
Posts: 1471

what happened to the valar

Post#3 » Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:09 am

the Valar were not allowed to interfear...but they did three times or more....during the war of the ring they sent he Istar or Istari or whatever the plural is.

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

what happened to the valar

Post#4 » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:11 pm

In the previous times the Valar interfered with the machinarions of the evil ones, they damaged middle earth so badly that they were no longer allowed to take an active part in the bringing down Sauron.

In the Valor's first battle, eastern Middle-earth was subjected to major damage with geograhical areas undergoing great changes: mountains moved and lakes shrank or enlarged, nothing was the same as before. In their second battle the western half of Middle-earth (Beleriand) was submerged beneath the waves. In the third battle Numenor was submerged beneath the waves. This couldn't go on, so instead they sent the five wizards: Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, and the two Blue Wizards to act as their proxies.
'Share and enjoy'

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miruvor
Posts: 849

what happened to the valar

Post#5 » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:39 pm

the Valar were not allowed to interfear...but they did three times or more....during the war of the ring they sent he Istar or Istari or whatever the plural is.

The Valar were the masters of Arda. Nobody disallowed them anything, as they were given dominion over Arda by Illúvatar.

After the sinking of Númenor, they merely chose to interfere indirectly by sending the Istari.

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

what happened to the valar

Post#6 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:02 am

In the third battle Numenor was submerged beneath the waves


The sinking of Numenor wasn't actually down to the Valar. When the Numenorian fleet invaded Aman, Manwe called upon Iluvatar and it was Iluvatar himself who sank Numenor and changed the shape of the world. I think going from a flat world to a round one was beyond even the powers of the Valar.

But yes, the Valar tended to stand aside from the later struggles because of the terrible destruction they could unleash when they did get involved. Personally I can buy this explaination where the likes of Aule and Ulmo are concerned, but why they could not have just send Eonwe or Tulkas across to sort the problem I'm not so sure. They could have just grabbed Sauron by the ear and dragged him home kicking and screaming. There again, the book would have been pretty short and boring, which is most likely the real reason JRR did not have the Valar interfering directly in the first place.

Sometimes when confronted with this sort of dilemna.... Why didn't the Valar/Iluvatar do something? ..... it is often best to remember JRR was writing a book. He had to make it interesting and tense, so having the Valar sort every problem just would not have worked.


jimmy
Posts: 12

what happened to the valar

Post#7 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:18 am

thanks but something is still not clear who disclaimed the valar's actions and why :paranoid:

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cloveress
Posts: 2289

what happened to the valar

Post#8 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:24 am

Disclaim? Nobody disclaimed the Valar. The Valar just decided that they should leave ME to its fate for once, and not to interfere (as interferance usually came to very nasty results). But if anyone on ME thought that the Valar had deserted them or something they're wrong. Because the Valar were watching over them all the time, only they decided to test others' strength rather than trifle themselves with such troubles.

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elrose
Posts: 1471

what happened to the valar

Post#9 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:15 am

you know what? i have always thought that Eru said something to the Valar about interfearence but it might have just been Manwe for all i know....

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miruvor
Posts: 849

what happened to the valar

Post#10 » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:34 pm

i have always thought that Eru said something to the Valar about interfearence but it might have just been Manwe for all i know....

Eru never said anything in the like. The Valar were the Powers of Arda, and therefor the rulers of anything therein.

Only once, the Valar laid down their dominion, when Ar-Phârazon set foot on Aman. Their love for the Children of Illúvatar was so great that they didn't want to destroy Ar-Phârazon and Co themselves, but left the decision to Illúvatar himself.

The Valar just decided that they should leave ME to its fate for once, and not to interfere (as interferance usually came to very nasty results).

The Valar did, however, interfere, but only indirectly, by sending the Istari instead of an army.
Without the Istari, Sauron would not have been finally defeated by the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth.

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