Aragorn

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maydmarion
Posts: 1727

Aragorn

Post#1 » Mon May 22, 2006 10:43 am

After Moria and the rest of the Fellowship get to Lothlorien, in the book, chapter named 'Lothrorien' at the very end of the chapter it states......

And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man


Does this mean he went there in some 'other' way?? If he never went there again would it not have stated that and not
as living man
. It is written that Arwen went there to die. Did they meet in death?? I hope so.

Also, is it true that Galadriel and Celeborn also died??

Sorry for 2 questions - it's amazing the different things you pick up each time you read LOTR but had not really thought about before.

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Aragorn

Post#2 » Mon May 22, 2006 11:08 am

It is written that Arwen went there to die. Did they meet in death?? I hope so.

Aragorn died in Rath Dínen, Arwen died on the hill of Cerin Amroth after she'd made the Choice of Lúthien, meaning that both their spirits would pass to Eru's Halls where they'd meet again. There, too, they would meet their illustrious ancestors : Beren & Lúthien.

Also, is it true that Galadriel and Celeborn also died??

No, Galadriel returned to the Undying Lands and Celeborn joined her several years later.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Aragorn

Post#3 » Mon May 22, 2006 5:34 pm

:inlove: I think that it would be more romantic if after Aragorn died, his spirit waited on Cerin Amroth for the spirit of Arwen to join him, and together they made their journey to Eru's Halls. Were the Professor or his spirit still around to be asked if this was possible, he might agree that Maydmarion's quote above, lents it credence. :inlove:
'Share and enjoy'

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Aragorn

Post#4 » Tue May 23, 2006 3:52 am

I think that it would be more romantic if after Aragorn died, his spirit waited on Cerin Amroth for the spirit of Arwen to join him, and together they made their journey to Eru's Halls.

Or, to make it even more romantic, maybe the quote means that they both kept living on the hill of Cerin Amroth as undead.

After all, The Corpse Bride was pretty romantic, wasn't it?
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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maydmarion
Posts: 1727

Aragorn

Post#5 » Tue May 23, 2006 4:47 pm

Galadriel returned to the Undying Lands and Celeborn joined her several years later.


In the 'Appendix A' in the LOTR book I have, it states that...

Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone,


Is there any books I could read to give the further information on Aragorn, Arwen and Galadriel?

Oh, Vir....I never saw 'The Corpse Bride' - sounds gruesome :dead:......and Vir where's your romance gone :inlove:

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Aragorn

Post#6 » Tue May 23, 2006 4:51 pm

There's nothing beyond what's written in The story of Aragorn & Arwen in the Appendices.

And 'Galadriel passed away, Celeborn was gone', simply means that Galadriel was in Valinor (remeber that she set off together with Elrond, Frodo, Gandalf & Bilbo) and Celeborn followed her some time later, though not immediately. I am sure it is mentioned in the Appendices too that Celeborn first started a new realm in Mirkwood, but later on moved to Rivendell for a while before he missed Galadriel so much that he set off to Valinor too.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

Aragorn

Post#7 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:20 pm

Doesn't it state somewhere in The Silmarillion that the last of the Noldor departed from Middle Earth forever when the white ship that set sail with Frodo, Gandalf, Elrond, and Galandriel left. Meaning that Galandriel and Elrond were the last of the Noldor to leave Middle Earth.... I know Celeborn was of the Sindar, so that excludes him, but i'm just curious about Galandriel and Elrond being the last of the Noldor to leave Middle Earth.

Galandriel must basically be the longest surviving of the exiles to stay in Middle Earth and almost one of the oldest elves of age, with the exception of the elves who stayed in Valinor.

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Tinúviel
Posts: 510

Aragorn

Post#8 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:24 am

I think the rest of the remaining Noldor had left not too long before them. Seeing as how they were the "leaders/elders" (or whatever the correct title would be) of the Noldor in middle earth, it would only be fitting if they were the last to leave. Though Galadriel was only half Noldor.

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Aragorn

Post#9 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:42 am

Though Galadriel was only half Noldor.

Practically, she was 1/4 Vanya, 1/4 Noldo and 1/2 Teleri. Her father was half Noldo.

But her father's house was counted amongst the House of Finwë, hence Galadriel is counted as fully Noldo too.

I know Celeborn was of the Sindar

In the Silmarillion, yes. But in another version in Unfinished Tales Celeborn is a Teleri from Alqualondë.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

Aragorn

Post#10 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:07 pm

Sorry Tinúviel but i'm going to have to agree with Virumor on this one. If you had to be 100% Noldor blood to be considered Noldor, then the Noldors would be greatly diminished in stature, and Fingolfin, Finarfin and they're whole family would be taken out of the Noldor bloodline.

Thanks for reminding me about the Celeborn predicament Virumor, i also own The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales also, i'd just like to point out something the Christopher Tolkien writes in his introduction to Unfinished Tales.

When the author has ceased to publish his works himself, after subjecting them to his own detailed criticism and comparison, the further knowledge of Middle-earth to be found in his unpublished writings will often conflict with what is already 'known', and new elements set into the existing edifice will in such cases tend to contribute less to the history of the invented world itself than to the history of its invention. pg 4

basically what he's trying to say there is we should consider The Hobbit and LOTR 'official' and 'known' history of Middle-earth. It's Tolkien's own published work as he saw fit. The Silmarillion was very close to being finished, but the order of events were out of order and some little blanks had to be filled in, by Christopher Tolkien, to make it a coherent narrative. Although Christopher Tolkien would like The Silmarillion to be 'known' history as well.

If that is the case I'd think Christopher Tolkien, and hopefully J.R.R Tolkien, would prefer us to rely on information in The Silmarillion to out weight any other of the Books there were released, with the exception of The Hobbit and LOTR.

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