Posts: 1022


Post#1 » Sat May 27, 2006 10:24 pm

Not sure where to put this, so I'm sticking it here; feel free, of course, to move it CMs. The issue is this: the word "ambar" in the Oath of Elendil means "earth" (Ambar-metta=Middle-earth.) In Turins self appointed moniker it means "doom, fate." It has been my understanding this is due the fact Elendil took his Oath in Quenya, while Turin, as a fosterling in Doriath (where Thingol had banned Quenya because of the Kinslaying) chose a name in Sindarin, where "umbar" means earth and "ambar" means "doom, fate." However, the question arose on another site, regarding the meaning of my user name, and the response the inquirer made to my clarification was as follows, citing Ardalambion as reference:

Found my Quendict!
Fanatic-Templar - 5/26/2006 9:50:17 PM

ambar 1. "doom" (variant of umbar?) in Turambar (SA:amarth); instrumental ambartanen "by doom" (Silm ch. 21, UT:13. 2. (capitalized Ambar) "world". Ambar-metta "the end of the world"

Well there ya go.

My knowledge of the tongues in question is rather limited though; can any of our resident linguiphiles shed some light on this issue?

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Post#2 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:12 pm

You basically have it from all I've been able to find (also being a non-linguist).

ambar means doom
Ambar means doom of a specic place like the Ea or Arda
umbar means fate
Umbar is a Middle-earth coastal location to the southeast of Gondor
'Share and enjoy'

Posts: 1022


Post#3 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:23 pm

So "Ambar-metta" is not "Middle-earth" but "the end of the world" then? That makes sense, I suppose, but what does it leave as the "generic" term for earth? I was hoping to avoid that problem with the "it's two different, but related, languages" but it looks like I'll have to confront SOME kind of problem regardless. Thanks for the response, it's good to have some outside input.

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