Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

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rednell
Posts: 1798

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Week 18 - February 9th
This week we will discuss Chapter 2: The Shadow of the Past.
I will be away, however, the class will be lead by PT Council Members.

See you in Bilblos-Study Sunday 9pm GMT (4pm ET)

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MelliotSandybanks
Posts: 1517

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Nell, tried to send the info to me and the attachments did not work, I don't feel qualified to teach it. But I will try. I will definetly need help from the other council members.

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MelliotSandybanks
Posts: 1517

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I am going out of town on a family emergency, I will not be around for the class. Sorry folks, not sure what the rest of the council has planned. Class may be cancelled until Nell gets back.


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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think myself and Grondy are still up for covering for Rednell. Unless some emergency comes up in the meantime, I shall be there at the normal time.

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Snape
Posts: 1294

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Log for class is as follows:
[21:07] Okay, let us begin our study of the second chapter of FotR
[21:07] The Shaddow of the Past
[21:07] Hi Sam
[21:08] There were roumors of things strange things happening, what were some of them?
[21:08] Elves leaving ME, lots of Dwarves heading West
[21:08] Trolls and a walking tree
[21:09] There terrible creatures about
[21:09] Rumours of a dark lord in Mordor
[21:09] what they said....
[21:09] and the trolls were armed and not quite so dim witted as before
[21:10] What was the attitude of the Hobbits toward these roumors
[21:10] they heard them, but didn't pay them much mind
[21:10] Or they rejected them as fantasy
[21:10] Something to talk about around the fire place... It was happening elsewhere so they were not really bothered
[21:10] They brushed them off and thought they were folly
[21:11] yes I agree
[21:11] * Joins: Airecristiel (moonglow_3@e15dd1c3.dea5ea3e.com.hmsk)
[21:11] Welcome Airecristiel - Airecristiel hugs everybody and says "Hello!"
[21:11] * Barliman sets mode: +v Airecristiel
[21:11] what they said...
[21:11] they even called the rumours "fairytales for kids"
[21:12] Why do you think Tolkien introduces us to the rising of the Dark Lord just as roumors in the Shire?
[21:12] hi Aire. the hobbits are not used to rumours
[21:12] Because the shire is our safe place
[21:12] because the book (or most of it) is from the hobbits perspective
[21:12] because he wants us to see where the hobbits are coming from
[21:12] He wants us to see it from the Hobbits point of view
[21:12] I think anything that occured outside of the Shire was of little interest to the Hobbits... They were very isolated
[21:12] they had very little contact with others outside the Shire
[21:12] It provides atransition between the bucolic Shire setting and the later serious themes, i think
[21:13] yes definately. we can fit into the Shire better than other places, so it does give us that transition
[21:13] It also make the stories more ominous that they are not given credibility
[21:13] bucolic?? what's that?
[21:13] Because four of his main characters are from here, he needs to show the reader how strange the world would seem to them
[21:13] Sorry -- like farming, countryside settings
[21:13] ok, tnx
[21:13] Yes to emphasize how prorevted the Hobbits are from the surrounding world
[21:13] it sets up the later revelation of the ring nicely, also...there are all these rumors, and then it all becomes real
[21:14] Danger doesn't truly happen till they reach the Old Forest.
[21:14] they meet the first wraith before that...
[21:14] they don't care for anything but thei comfort
[21:14] they even pass throught a gate, in that chapter, animating the transition
[21:15] Good point, Komosot
[21:15] And they don't like Gandalf's influence on Frodo
[21:15] Gandalf caused Bilbo to crack and is sending Frodo the same way
[21:16] They don't like him except for his fireworks
[21:16] Honestly, i think this whole point we are making ties along with the fact that Tom Bombadil is the reader. But that's a different story.
[21:16] Sorry, what gate do they pass through?
[21:16] yes that is interesting Komosot
[21:16] that metal gate...in the Old forest
[21:16] The gate into the Old Forest
[21:16] not in this chapter
[21:16] The gate in High Hay
[21:16] Oh okay
[21:16] or that stone gate that simply "dissapears"
[21:17] in the barrowdowns
[21:17] So Gandalf returns
[21:17] But this is the chapter that starts everything moving to the serious realities of later
[21:17] which is that Ghan?
[21:17] He returns briefly over the years to keep his eye on Frodo
[21:18] I think to see what influence the ring is having on him
[21:18] after many years away with a tale of the ring, that it is REALLY dangerous
[21:18] When ever he visits the other Hobbits start gossiping again
[21:18] Tolkien had a problem, he had to turn a childrens book "the hobbit" into an adult sequel, that is way we see the obvious transition from the shire too the Old Forest.
[21:19] It's during this time that he has the Rangers guard the Shire too
[21:19] This is also the chapter in which the Ring is revealed as something extraordinary
[21:19] He's gone for something like 9 years isn't he?
[21:19] yes grondy, when he comes back the last time he is almost sure it's the one ring
[21:19] Isildur's scroll
[21:19] He just has to confirm it
[21:19] yes he was gone 9 years to pin down what the ring was
[21:20] how did he confirm it
[21:20] yes Komosot , that is a good point (about kids book to adult book) hence Tolkien's need to bring us into a book that begins with the same atompshere as The Hobbit
[21:20] Isildur's scroll...
[21:20] put it in the fire
[21:20] He threw the ring in the fire?
[21:20] During that time he got a hold of Gollum
[21:20] Placing it in the fire revealed the hidden script
[21:20] and saw the markings
[21:20] watching Frodo and Bilbo
[21:20] wasn't it aragorn who caught Gollum?
[21:20] Right Sam, and the Old Forest, is that gate that teleports us into the adult gate. Tom is our guide.
[21:20] Good point, sam. that aroused his suspicions
[21:21] Yes, but Gandalf did question him
[21:21] the Woodelves caught Gollum I thought
[21:21] no
[21:21] Aragorn caught Gollum and Gandalf questioned him
[21:21] The woodelves kept Gollum prisoned
[21:21] they held Gollum "prisoned"
[21:21] Aragorn captured him in the Dead Marshes and they took him to Mirkwood
[21:21] yes you're right Thingolfin
[21:21] The woodelves accidently released Gollum, as well.
[21:22] Gandalf got his story after much hard work
[21:22] Legolas decribes Gollums escape being contributed to the wood Elves "pity"
[21:22] They did that out of kindness... they pitied him
[21:22] at the council
[21:22] yes
[21:22] * Joins: Delidia (pt@bd1504e3.mrdnct.adsl.2836931f.net.hmsk)
[21:22] Welcome Delidia -
[21:22] * Barliman sets mode: +v Delidia
[21:22] hey
[21:22] peoples
[21:22] lol
[21:22] that was one of the Elves failing points pity
[21:22] hi Delidia
[21:22] No, they took him for a walk out of pity, but then lots of orcs came and as the woodelves were trying to kill them, Gollum excaped.
[21:22] what we talkin bout?
[21:22] He escaped because they let him out now and then to climb the trees
[21:23] um...?
[21:23] escaped*
[21:23] But pity plays a constant role in allowing Gollum to fulfil his purpose
[21:23] This is a lesson about chapter 2 of FotR
[21:23] In UT it says that sauron purposely sent an attack on Mirkwood hoping to free Gollum.
[21:23] The second Chapter of FotR Delidia
[21:23] o
[21:23] ok
[21:23] Del: we're talking about the second chapter of FotR
[21:23] thanx
[21:23] Gollum is still captive people
[21:23] Komosot, that's the orcs that were attacking the woodelves on their walk with Gollum.
[21:24] ok, lets stay in ch 2 folks..
[21:24] right Aire.
[21:24] That is for a latter discussion
[21:24] At this time, yes
[21:24] lala
[21:24] o sry
[21:24] yes, back to chapter two.
[21:24] ok
[21:24] chapter 2 makes you want to talk about chap 3-6, lol
[21:24] What did Gandalf say about pity
[21:24] :)
[21:24] :D
[21:24] No Smiles please
[21:24] pity was what stopped bilbo from killing gollum
[21:25] he said Pity is what saved Bilbo from the Ring
[21:25] pity stayed bilbo's hand
[21:25] Pity will play a part in Frodo's part of the Quest
[21:25] What did Frodo think about Gollum
[21:25] Don't be so quick to deal out death in judgement
[21:25] Frodo did pity him
[21:25] he thought he deserved death
[21:26] in the begining
[21:26] even wise cannot see all ends
[21:26] when he asw him
[21:26] *saw
[21:26] Frodo found him disgusting at first.
[21:26] Frodo couldn't understand why Bilbo didn't kill him
[21:26] Indeed, Komosot
[21:26] that he was as bad as an orc and deserved to die
[21:26] good word: disgusting
[21:26] * Joins: Littleirena (pt@80ec8844.vc.5eb2c41d.net.hmsk)
[21:26] Welcome Littleirena -
[21:26] * Barliman sets mode: +v Littleirena
[21:26] hey
[21:26] hullo
[21:26] hi Irena
[21:26] Hi Irina
[21:26] Hi irena
[21:26] how's the class going?
[21:27] um...
[21:27] I think one of Tolkien's greta skills was to establish the foundations of later themes -- the pity thing is one example
[21:27] class is going great! for me anyway. yes Ghan I agree
[21:27] another line on pity: gandalf meant that since bilbo started his ownership of the ring with pity, that was the reason it hurt him so little.
[21:28] I think many of the themes of LotR are stated in the second chap. of FotR
[21:28] it is a sort of overall view
[21:28] agree
[21:28] That's why it's so difficult to stick to this chapter
[21:28] It is also interesting that the time-scale of Ch2 covers years whereas Ch1 was almost all present action
[21:28] hey Ghan
[21:28] !
[21:28] how are you?
[21:29] yes that's true Ghan
[21:29] Chap. 2 is mostly dialouge
[21:29] Cool! TY let's stick to the topic LOL
[21:29] Notice pity and Mercy are personified and that Pity minimized the pain Bilbo would have to endure because of the ring. Bilbo was meant to find the ring and not by its maker, then who wanted Bilbo to find the ring?
[21:29] Eru
[21:29] huh?
[21:29] yes
[21:29] Yes
[21:29] perhaps Eru
[21:29] ok...im zonein
[21:29] The ring wanted a new owner but it was Eru who chose Bilbo
[21:30] Was it the Ring? Was it part of Eru's plan?
[21:30] GOd works in mysterious ways...
[21:30] * Delidia is now known as Delidia_zoning
[21:30] he
[21:30] lol
[21:30] Yes, something happened that the ring did not intend
[21:30] lol
[21:30] sry
[21:30] the Ring is personified in Chap. 2, in the rest of the book it is not really
[21:31] personified
[21:31] Why didn't Eru just throw the ring in mount doom?
[21:31] um.....
[21:31] he had to work through people
[21:31] i dunno?
[21:31] well, he sort of did that, but through Bilbo and Frodo
[21:31] yeah yeah...
[21:31] hehe
[21:31] The fact that Gandalf says, " and that is an encouraging thought" indicates it was Eru I think
[21:31] I don't think Eru ever came into ME himself
[21:31] I thing Gandalf finds it "an encouraging thought", then he must see some other power at work besides the ring
[21:31] he worked through manwe and the other valars i think
[21:31] but doesn't the ring have a sort of personnality for itself, could it have wanted a different owner thanBilbo?
[21:31] Eru was incarnate
[21:32] the ring almost certainly wanted an owner other than Bilbo
[21:32] the ring wants Sauron to be its owner.
[21:32] But it didn't have many choices in the Shire
[21:32] remember Bilbo said it was hard to hold on to...slipped off all the time
[21:32] I imagine the ring saying "Dol!" when bilbo picks him up.
[21:32] I think it did Irena, but it was Eru who decided
[21:32] The music of the Ainur before time decided the fate of ME before the world even began... That is how Eru Manipulates things
[21:32] So it stuck with Bilbo for the time being
[21:33] it was almost like the Ring 'slept' until Sauron began sending out his thought from Mirkwood
[21:33] and Bilbo gave it up almost voluntarily
[21:33] and so took little hurt from it
[21:33] Yes Sam, the ring awoke when it sensed Sauron was back
[21:33] yes val, but I think it's up to man and elf to decide how it's gonna happen
[21:34] because he was not so easily corrupted by its power, and he had the guidance of Gandalf
[21:34] what if the ring was lost, and Gollum hadn't found it? would Sauron diminish and fade away eventually?
[21:34] yes, that is a good distinction Perwing: fate and how fate is carried out
[21:34] * Delidia_zoning is now known as Delidiabyebye
[21:34] The ring's reduced effcet of Bilbo is somehow parallel to its having no powewr over Tom. But I think it is just a part-animate extension of sauron himself
[21:34] that is interesting Ghan
[21:34] I don't think Sauron would have diminished if the Ring was never found...as long as it existed, so woul dhe
[21:34] would he*
[21:34] No, Sauron would live while the ring was in existance
[21:35] he'd just continue lurking around like he had been, scheming to gain power
[21:35] I think that Bilbo is resisting the Ring, the Ring is not really claiming Bilbo
[21:35] Gandalf says himself Sauron will win with or without the ring, if it's not destroyed...
[21:35] I agree, Chika. But he has greater power with the ring
[21:35] bARLIMAN JUST CALLED ME A GOOFBALL
[21:35] Barliman
[21:35] *
[21:35] Even if Gollum hadn't found it somebody else eventually would.
[21:35] yes chika, I agree, he could never come into full power w/o the Ring, but without it he could not die
[21:35] and he prefers having it(bilbo)
[21:36] It was his anchor to ME
[21:36] Why couldn't Gandalf, just use the ring to defeat Sauron?
[21:36] Bilbo prefers having the Ring Irena?
[21:36] he could, but then he'd become a dark lord in his own right
[21:36] the little.......BEEP
[21:36] it would corrupt Gandalf
[21:36] It would corrupt everything he did
[21:36] the ring is evil, it turns everything to evil
[21:36] because sauron had put a lot of his powers into it
[21:36] Gandalf was too powerful
[21:36] He could have, but the ring would have corrupted him and made him a new dark lord
[21:36] ya, Sam- he doesn't give it up easyly
[21:36] HE CALLED ME STUPID!
[21:36] Gandalf had too much powers, he would be corrupted and be worse than Sauron.
[21:36] I get it now Irena, thank you
[21:36] aarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh
[21:36] gandalf would use it to do good, but the ring would corrupt him eventually
[21:37] yw- at least that is what i think
[21:37] Gandalf would have become more powerful than Sauron
[21:37] same deal with Galadrial
[21:37] yes exactly
[21:37] he just called himself an idoit
[21:37] The possesor of the ring would be taking on part of Sauron's spirit
[21:37] lol
[21:37] and it didn't corrrupt the hobbits because?
[21:37] The ring would have loved either one of them because they had power that it could use
[21:37] The ring is evil innature and cannot be used for lasting good
[21:37] hobbits did not want Power
[21:38] the hobbits were resistant to it because they had very little power and had no desire for ti
[21:38] it*
[21:38] it did curropt hobbits
[21:38] the hobbits have great resiliance, and they dont care for it's powers
[21:38] whatever
[21:38] how do Delidia?
[21:38] they have little ambition
[21:38] how *so?
[21:38] it corrupted Bilbo
[21:38] and Frodo a bit
[21:38] hes freaky
[21:38] ya
[21:38] and gollum
[21:38] eventually, you're right, Del, it does start to take over, but not to the extremity that would have happened to Gandalf
[21:38] yes
[21:38] it corrupted Frodo more than Bilbo, Bilbo gave the ring away, frodo did not
[21:38] that's true, but not nearly as much as say the ring-wraiths
[21:39] Frobo[im sry i hate him] too
[21:39] lol
[21:39] but not do do great evil
[21:39] !
[21:39] Hobbits cared for having a good time, eating and drinking, they did not whish to rule the world.
[21:39] DONT ruin it
[21:39] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Taz
[21:39] lol
[21:39] Frodo was corrupted from day one
[21:39] yup
[21:39] yup
[21:39] how so?
[21:39] he was?
[21:39] anyone who took the Ring was
[21:39] g2g
[21:39] oh that's true
[21:39] * Joins: Revo (revoik@f79ddec3.a1.elektron.6ca6b00c.pl.hmsk)
[21:39] Welcome Revo -
[21:39] bye
[21:39] * Barliman sets mode: +v Revo
[21:39] except Sam sort of
[21:39] Frodo IS corrupted
[21:40] hi Revo
[21:40] * Quits: Thingolfin (Thingolfin@ad7cc934.bb.ee0df7e8.no.hmsk) (Quit: Thingolfin)
[21:40] hey
[21:40] hullo Revo
[21:40] I don't think he was... He took it very close to Mordor before he became corrupted
[21:40] Yes, but in the case of the Hobbits it couldn't do any great evil
[21:40] The ring is in some way also a metaphor for abusive power, which helps to explian its limited effect on Hobbits
[21:40] Sam passively offered to keep the ring, frodo wnet berserk.
[21:40] i think val is right, he didn't care much for it before that
[21:40] and he could not throw it into his own fire when Gandalf asked him to Val
[21:40] well i think frodo is a Corrupted little goofball
[21:40] !
[21:40] yes Ghan, I like that
[21:40] So Gandalf says that Gollum and hobbits and the Shire and Baggins
[21:41] are now know to the Dark Lord
[21:41] making the nine come after frodo
[21:41] Like Gollum, alll he did was take it into a cave and catch fish and little orcs
[21:41] huh?
[21:41] hehe
[21:41] what did Frodo think about that
[21:41] um................................
[21:41] Although he killed his friend to gian it, Arwen
[21:42] gain
[21:42] he got scared
[21:42] it frightened him
[21:42] he wished it had not happened in his time
[21:42] Gollum did not understand the full power of the ring? did he?
[21:42] He was scared and didn't want anything to do with the ring
[21:42] it sort of seemed to resolve him to what needed to be done
[21:42] no he didn't Irena, I don't think
[21:42] kinda like how Smeagol killed Deagol?
[21:42] and he tried to give it away to gandalf
[21:42] to get the ring?
[21:42] the power of theh Ring was working on Gollum but he did not understand it
[21:42] ok,
[21:42] yes Chika it idd
[21:42] *did
[21:43] he knew Sauron knew of the Shire, so that made it clear to him that terrible things could happen to those he loved if he allowed things to go on
[21:43] o....k...
[21:43] * Joins: [eNeRGy] (michael@d664d1e4.upc-c.d93c1fe4.nl.hmsk)
[21:43] Welcome [eNeRGy] -
[21:43] * Barliman sets mode: +v [eNeRGy]
[21:43] So what did Frodo decide to do?
[21:43] <[eNeRGy]> Revo: would you be so nice to remove your clones ?
[21:43] that sort of ties into the rumor question from earlier: these terrible rumors are suddenly true, and the hobbits are all ignorant of it
[21:43] hello energy
[21:43] [eNeRGy] of cours
[21:43] hullo emergy
[21:43] yes chika
[21:43] * Joins: Chaos (eric@d82039.upc-d.chello.nl)
[21:43] Welcome Chaos -
[21:43] * Barliman sets mode: +v Chaos
[21:43] <[eNeRGy]> hello Sam and Littleirena
[21:44] lo Chaos
[21:44] hi
[21:44] hi everybody
[21:44] Frodo decided to take the ring as far away from the Shire as he could possibly manage.
[21:44] after asking gandalf's advice frodo decided he had to take the ring away from hobbiton
[21:44] hullo Chaos
[21:44] <[eNeRGy]> Revo: thanks
[21:44] hi
[21:44] he decided to do what Gandalf wanted him to do'
[21:44] Did Frodo understand the danger he faced?
[21:45] * Littleirena wonders what exactly the topic is?
[21:45] not originally
[21:45] no
[21:45] ya
[21:45] Not at first he didn't
[21:45] i dont think so no
[21:45] nope
[21:45] not in the begining
[21:45] * Parts: [eNeRGy] (michael@d664d1e4.upc-c.d93c1fe4.nl.hmsk) (bye)
[21:45] he became aware of it, though
[21:45] im with irena on that one
[21:45] Yes, he decided to take the ring far from the Shire, but then he procrastinated
[21:45] irena, the topic is Ch 2 of FotR
[21:45] Not the full danger anyway... nor that he would have to take it so far
[21:45] ok, thanx
[21:45] Tiny I: about Chapter Two ogf FotR
[21:45] * Parts: Chaos (eric@d82039.upc-d.chello.nl) (have a nice evening, bye)
[21:46] i dont think he became aware of the dangers before the council of Elrond
[21:46] or before the Ringwraiths on Amon Sul
[21:46] * Quits: Komosot (JavaClient@e54fb55b.pbc.d75a346f.net.hmsk) (Quit: http://cookie.sorcery.net/~ircd_/javachat/)
[21:46] I think he started to understand the dangers from the persuit of the Ringwraiths
[21:46] he probably got a clue there, yes!
[21:46] I think he didn't fully understand everything until he left the fellowship
[21:46] I think you're reight, Perwing, that's when he really understood what effect the Ring had on all parts of ME.
[21:46] i have to go- buhbye everyone
[21:46] If he knew the full nature of the danger he might have been too scared to go
[21:46] bye, nice talking to you!
[21:47] bye Irena
[21:47] * Quits: Littleirena (pt@80ec8844.vc.5eb2c41d.net.hmsk) (Quit: Leaving)
[21:47] yes
rrupt him already then.
[21:49] I think he could give it up... He was willing to at the Council of Elrond until hee saw what it was doing to everyone
[21:49] and this was several years after he got it, it probably had gre
[21:47] but he didn't want to give it away either, so he HAD to take it himself
[21:48] yes that is important I think Perwing
[21:48] He couldn't give it away!
[21:48] il brb
[21:48] Who would he have given it to though?
[21:48] * Delidiabyebye is now known as Delidia
[21:48] There was noone to give it too!
[21:48] And besides he had alsways wanted to follow Bilbo on his adventures
[21:48] He couldn't give it to Gandalf
[21:48] Bilbo had left many years ago, Gandalf would be the new dark lord...
[21:48] Who else?
[21:48] he tried to give it to gandalf when he first got it, but after that i think he couldn't give it up
[21:49] because there was no one better to give it to
[21:49] yes that is true
[21:49] And perhaps the ring started to corrupt him already then.
[21:49] I think he could give it up... He was willing to at the Council of Elrond until hee saw what it was doing to everyone
[21:49] and this was several years after he got it, it probably had gotten a grip over him then
[21:49] Did he have to travel alone?
[21:49] I dont think it was corrupting him already
[21:50] At Elronds party he was having trouble of letting Bilbo see it.
[21:50] nope, sam with the long ear came with him
[21:50] no he went with Sam and Pippen and later Merry
[21:50] I think that was the way Bilbo wanted to hold it
[21:50] and Strider
[21:50] Yes , but that's because Bilbo went kinda psycho when he wanted to see it
[21:50] yes Val, I agree
[21:50] And Fatty Bolger for a while
[21:50] * Quits: Revo (revoik@f79ddec3.a1.elektron.6ca6b00c.pl.hmsk) (Quit: [DXM] script by SpeedY ver. 4.04 (http://www.dxm.prv.pl))
[21:50] merry and pippin was supposed to stay back at first
[21:50] But that is in future chapters
[21:50] I think he wanted to keep it away from Bilbo
[21:51] to rid Bilbo fully of it
[21:51] * Taz sets mode: +b *!revoik@f79ddec3.a1.elektron.6ca6b00c.pl.hmsk
[21:51] Yes, I agree, he knew it wasn't good for Bilbo
[21:51] I don't think it was because he wanted to rid Bilbo of it, I think it was because the ring had gotten hold over him.
[21:51] him as in Frodo?
[21:51] Because frodo knew that Bilbo would be hurt by even seeing it
[21:51] !
[21:51] The rindg seems to play on its bearer's weaknesses -- frodo delaying his departure was part of that
[21:51] he also wanted it for himself, but this is later in the book folks....
[21:52] yes I never noticed that before Ghan
[21:52] Good point Ghan
[21:52] that's true, Ghan
[21:52] With almost fatal results
[21:52] Yes, it first affects their fears, then their greed for power
[21:53] yes Arwen -- each according to his stature
[21:53] yes, good point Arwen
[21:53] Frodo generally was temped to use it to hide when afraid... the ring would have encouraged him to do that
[21:53] yes, as was Sam later on
[21:53] I'm out...good bye, guys
[21:53] * Quits: chikakat (pt@8c813d53.student.28391d56.edu.hmsk) (Quit: Leaving)
[21:53] Thus exposing him to the Nazgul
[21:54] ok, nice talking to you chika!
[21:54] at that point I think Frodo did not understand the Ring, or else was powerless to it
[21:55] i dont think frodo EVER understood the ring fully
[21:55] Yes, the ring knew he wouldn't use it to do evil, so it had to find another way to make him put it on
[21:55] The power of fear of a Nagul to a hobbit must have been terrible though
[21:55] yes, so in this point of the book we can almost sympathize with them
[21:55] *Nazgul
[21:55] that is a good point Arwen
[21:56] wow, everyone is leaving
[21:56] Even though he didn't know what the Nazgul were, they still terrified him
[21:56] That was their main weapon... fear
[21:56] they terrified everyone with just their precence i think
[21:56] That which we don't know is often more scary than that we know
[21:56] yes, and probably more so when they did not know much about them
[21:57] good one grondmaster!
[21:57] yes Grondy, very true
[21:57] Big people on Black horeses are very scary to wee hobbits
[21:57] Especially for a Hobbit, for whom until then everything had just been a rumour
[21:58] It must have been like one of us being teleported into the story
[21:58] that was the main function of Hobbits in the story I think Val
[21:58] had they known to true nature of the Nazgul they would have been petrified with fear
[21:58] there is great sadness in seeing the innocent Hobbits exposed to the evil of the wider world
[21:59] So do you think that Gandalf was doing him a favour by not telling him before about the Nazgul, if they are more scary when you don't know what they are?
[21:59] yes, and yet it also tells us that there is more to the world than what we know Ghan
[21:59] Which is why Frodo wished to protect the Shire by leaving it
[21:59] Good point Sam
[21:59] gandalf didn't know gollum escaped, so he didn't know the nazgul was coming
[21:59] I don't think so Arwen, and Gildork didn't either but that's later on inthe book
[22:00] Frodo left because he did not want to see hobbits exposed to the evil of the world, as Ghan said
[22:00] oh, k
[22:00] *Gildor
[22:00] What did Sam think about all this?
[22:00] he wanted to go with Frodo wherever he went
[22:00] not much, he just wanted to watch frodo
[22:00] he did not understand the danger he did not understand Frodo
[22:01] watch out for*
[22:01] What about Sam's wanting to see the Elves?
[22:01] Notice that the Hobbit's good intentions in their small world foreshadow the good they will achieve in the wolrd at large
[22:02] he thought the world outside the Shire was beautiful, he didn't think about it's dangfer
[22:02] *danger
[22:02] that's true, I really like that Ghan
[22:02] good on Ghan
[22:02] *one
[22:03] Each character's relationship with the ring is often based on intentions. Compare saruman and gandalf, for example
[22:03] sam never mentions the elves until they are off, and thats next chapter......
[22:03] yes, or knowledge
[22:03] Sam had loved Bilbo's stories... He wanted to see the world though rose tinted glasses
[22:03] I like that Val
[22:04] Yes val
[22:04] I think the hobbits did not know very much about the larger world and so they could not make evil intentions
[22:04] very much at least
[22:04] Yeah, Sam probably thought he was going on a nice scenic trip
[22:05] "'Me go and see Elves and all! Hooray!' he shouted and then he burst into tears."
[22:05] Where he could come home without going too long
[22:05] yep, just saw that in my book, sorry...
[22:05] that was what Frodo thought too in the begining
[22:05] after he sprang up like a dog invited to go on a walk.
[22:05] never trust your head, perwing, NEVER again!!
[22:06] I think they thought they were just going to go to Bree or Rivendell
[22:06] Yeah, back in time for supper...teehee
[22:06] Even Bree would have seemed like the "Big City" to them
[22:06] that is true
[22:07] well, Bree was their first destination. They didnä't knew they were going to Rivendell until after they'd met Strider.
[22:07] didn't*
[22:07] and they did say in rivendell that they had enough adventure and wanted to go home..
[22:07] Yes, they could not comprehend a world even bigger than that
[22:07] they were like the modern reader in that way: expecting to go on lovely adventures and come back safe
[22:08] Only from tales... but you don't get wet, cold and tired in tales
[22:08] no you don't
[22:08] Well, I think that probably wraps it up. Rednell would have done a much better job of it but we all lived through it.

User avatar
valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Log for class is as follows:
That was about half of it Taz. Did you recover any more?

User avatar
grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yes, we didn't shut down until after 22:05 or 22:10 GMT, so there should be more.
'Share and enjoy'

User avatar
rednell
Posts: 1798

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am


Start of #bilbos-study buffer: Sun Feb 16 18:58:14 2003
* Now talking in #bilbos-study
* ChanServ changes topic to 'This is Planet-Tolkien.com's
Tolkien class room! If a class is not currently active and no
one is about, try #Tolkien (Barliman)'
* ChanServ sets mode: +nt
* ChanServ sets mode: -o Rednell[away]
* Rednell[away] is now known as Rednell
* Valedhelgwath (pt@6ca5eca3.6ca5ecfb.213.78.imsk) has joined
#Bilbos-Study
First, I want to thank Grondy and Val for leading the
class last week.
and doing good as well!!
yw Nell
From all accounts you did a great job!
Actually it's praises to Grondy more than me
I second that -- they did well
Val was there to back me up or keep me in line
Credit's yours Grondy, I just sat back and
watched
but Taz seems to have lost half the transcript
I also wanted some feedback on the amount of the text
we cover each week. At this rate we will have done a very
thorough study, however, it will take 2 years to complete the
trilogy.
* Mellie (Admin@903d3b31.dsl.eulstx.f55b92fc.net.hmsk) has
joined #Bilbos-Study
Hi Mellie
hi Mellie
Welcome Mellie
hi mellie
hello all, sorry i am late
Hi Mellie
* Lady-of-Rohan1 (pt@64-252-123-218.adsl.snet.net) has joined
#Bilbos-Study
fine
wow looks like a full house
im here
welcome Mellie and Lady-of-Rohan1
Ouch
huh
Ghan-buri-Ghan> Hi Lady
Hi Lady
how am i LoR1?
So do we still wish to study the trilogy 1 chapter per
week or start doubling up?
not much. but a little bit
* Lady-of-Rohan1 is now known as LoR
ok
fine
for the later chapters we can double up
nell, as u said one chapter at a time will take ages...
Last week people were jumping ahead quite a lot
anyway
I vote we should double up -- most LOTR
chapters are short
Dudes, its nef
what ever you want to do Nell, I am just along for the
ride
by the way
and no offense
council of Elrond might need two weeks
Yes some need to stand alone, agree there grondy
Has everyone here read the Fellowship of the Ring?
ya
Yep
no
yep
Nay
yes
maybe
* Calenthang is an observer as always
an no actions as usual??
No actions or smilies pleas
and*
lol
Oh sorry
* LoR is now known as Aniwen
as long as it does not matter to the nays, then we
will start doubling up on some of the chapters then.
ok
They make the transcription hard to make
LoR, please don't change your nick so often
OK here
Okay by me
aargggg
Fine Nell
* Aniwen (pt@8d203a46.adsl.2836931f.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit:
Leaving)
good, then that is settled and we will start today's
discussion of Three is Company
We start out this chapter with Gandalf and Frodo
discussing what needs to be done with the Ring.
What has Frodo decided to do?
take the ring to rivendell
save the Shire by leaving
He was going to leave on his 50th birthday
but he wants to delay until the birthday
accompanied by Sam
good. Again Frodo compares his journey with Bilbo's.
What is the contrast?
Gandalf says not any later than then
bilbo went to get a treasure, frodo to get rid of one
Bilbo planned to return with treasure but Frodo
is disposing of it
Bilbo intended coming home, Frodo's not so sure
good
both good points
and on Bilbos last journey he just disappeared
what is similiar about their leaving the shire?
Frodo doesn't want to create such a stir
gandalf is behind it.
there is danger
they sang a song?
* Aniwen (pt@64-252-123-218.adsl.snet.net) has joined
#Bilbos-Study
and what is different about the song they sang?
yes Val, you are right Frodo does not want to create
that big of a stir
that is very true, Mellie and Val. What did Frodo do
on his birthday?
The song Frodo sings is to remind him of Bilbo
A quiet supper
nothing that I can tell right off, about the song
there is actually one word that has been changed in
the song.
"And whither then I can not say."
The super was a quite affair with close friends
Bilbo: Pursuing it with eager feet
Frodo: Pursuing it with weary feet.
Bilbo's is excited and Frodo is not
right
Wow i never noticed
me too
exactly, Mellie!
I must read the songs in future
I thought they were the same
Ditto. But of course, Bilbo did not have the
ring as a burden
That's why Nell is the teacher
very true, he only had the ring on the return journey
* Aniwen is silent.
Because Nell, volunteered for the job
And it seemed such a nice ring back then too
No actions please
and Bilbo was off on an unknown adventure, while
Frodo was off on a dangerous unknown quest
aniwen no actions please
Also, frodo is already aware of the possible
immensity of his task
When Frodo is preparing to leave the shire, he looks
around and notices that the harvest is the best ever, the corn
tall and full, etc. Was Frodo just more aware of the beauty
and abundance in the Shire because of the journey he was about
to undertake?
and bilbo had no idea, just that he was to be a thief
and there was dragon at the end
Most likely...My hometown looked really nice
just before I left too
Gandalf mentions the cracks of Doom as a
possible destination
yes, i think he was very aware because of the type of
journey
I think you start noticing the little things
more when you are going away
Frodo was still in love with the Shire and knew he
was going to miss it, maybe for ever
I think Frodo said something about the pumpkins...
yes, that is true.
My computer is acting very odd, if i disappear that is
why.
Who bought Bag End?
lobelia
Lobelia! LOL
The SB's
the sacksville Baggines
oh the irony of it all.
Wouldn't Bilbo be delighted.
Lobelia and Ortho Sackville-Baggins, finally after
all these years
At least they had to buy it rather than
inheriting
Actually, I think Ortho had died by this time.
yes i thought that was very ironic, and i think bilbo
would have been very up set
Not the last instance in the book where
something that is coveted is hard won
okay Lotho the son then
I think frodo should have given it to Sam's father the
Gaffer
Why did Frodo tell everyone that he was going to move
to Buckland?
Becasue he didn't want to put them in danger
Gaffer wouldn't have known what to do with it;
coulsdn't have afforded the upkeep or taxes
Good cover for his real plan and he came from
there
So that it would be easier for him to sneak away
without causing a stir
so, if the bad people started looking for him, he would
have a chance to get away
it did seem likely, and he didn't want people to know
he was going adventuring as well
a very credible cover.
so he could sneak off unbeknownst
I find we learn a lot about Sam in this chapter.
yes, it was an excellent idea, and he did not want to
put his friends in danger either
When they were getting to leave the Shire, Pippin made
note of Sam's share of the load. What did Pippin think?
Very practical...and a master spy
it was too heavy
Sam took more than his share
That Sam was babying Frodo?
Frodo didn't seem to protest much, however, did he?
Said he would check the loads the next day
that sam was willing to do more than his share and was
very considerate and kind
he did say something about checking the packs later
yes, later....
I think the master servant relationship was well
in place anyway
yes, I think you are right, Val
Sam would naturally have carried some of his
master's load
wanted to be off, and he was upstairs and Sam was
downstairs
I agree Val and it is hard for us to understand
the dynamics
I am not so sure that Pippin recognized it as such,
however.
no to Pippin it was still a lark
To Pippin they were all equals
yes, that is true val, it is something that is
difficult for me to understand a master/servant relationship.
There is another incident in the chapter where Pippin
was annoyed because Frodo went off and did not return with
water.
Something about putting it in his pockets
Bucklanders seem more egalitarian and
self-reliant
I think Pippin was as naive as i am
lol
But remember, Sam and Frodo know what they carry,
Pippin does not know the dangers they may face.
Very true
but frodo just told him to come with him and help
carry the water
I think they have an idea about the ring though
didn't sam rattle him out to merry and pippin?? we get
to know that later
we don't yet know that though Val
They know more than thery are letting on
They know the Ring is magic and made Bilbo disappear
but I think only Sam and Frodo know who the Ring belongs to.
your right Ghan, i never would have thought of that,
but Pippin also had no real clue why Frodo was leaving at that
point. yes we find out later that Pippin knew about the ring,
but he does not understand all that is involved with it yet
True
Pippin wants to rest and stop at taverns and such
I feel that the attitude changes after teh
encounter with the black rider
As they are walking along the road, they hear horse
hoofs. Frodo starts to have a struggle here. What is it?
yes, the attitude did change then. they started
realizeing the dangers.
The ring wants to be worn
he wanted to put the ring on
The ring is calling to the balck rider, trying
to get Frodo to reveal himself
is it the tiger or Gandalf hiding behind that door
probably the ring senses the wraith
and the ring was calling to him
the ring wants to be found
Frodo is missinf Gandalf
yes and it would seem that Frodo sensed that. I
noticed he told Sam and Pippin that perhaps it is Gandalf
sneaking up on them and suggests that they hide to surprise him
maybe it is he riding the horse
But Frodo was quite sure it was not Gandalf.
Frodo is very worried by gandalf's absence
Definitely
yes, and it really scared him
the hairs rising on the back of Frodo's nech tell
him it isn't Gandald
indeed
if gandalf had been there, frodo would not have been as
nervous about the journey.
Get off the road!
he felt certain that he did not want the rider to
discover him.
And only Frodo knows anything of gandalf's true
power
Gandalf was his protector, and Frodo felt very lost
with out him
In a way, I always felt Tolkien was finding
excuses for Gandalf not to be around
how so, Valedhelgwath
how do you mean Val?
just like the three troll incident
As a writer to keep up the suspense
good point.
Indeed
He left Bilbo and the Dwarves and then Frodo
ahhh, ok, never thought about that. very interesting
It seems like a plot contrivance but it is
really the effect of saruman's betrayel, as we later discover
only there to pull the fat out of the fire when
really needed
True, but from a writer's point of view, I think
he needed him out of the way
helps build self-reliance in the others
I agree, Val but he works it into the story
very well
You feel too safe when Gandalf is there
Of course if Gandalf was there to keep danger away,
Frodo would never have taken on the task that was given him.
Yes, he comes up with very good excuses
yes, but at least gandalf was there in the beginning of
the adventure,
with bilbo,
Or the trip to Rivendell would have been a
doddle
Gandalf really plays the role of the historian in FOTR
to point out the way for Frodo too
I think Gandalf perhaps realised this as well
but reading the book for the first time without read
the hobbit, u wouldn't know Gandalf could keep him out of
trouble so easily...
Starting to wonder about so many things is
distracting
true, Perwing.
The story was told as it was ment to be
Istar means "messenger" doesn't it?
and very well too, Calenthang
yes it does
yes, i believe so Calenthang
Gandalf is a facilitator
So Gandaldf is a messenger, not an actor
that would fit Gandalf's role in the first book of the
trilogy.
yes it does, but we doesn't know Gandalf is istari yet
when do we learn that?
The mission of the Istari was to guide rather
than directly influence though
Indeed, per
Showing the path
which explains the lack of involvement of Gandalf at
this point in the story.
Of course, "angel" also means messenger
tnx val, didn't know that
I don't think we really find out Gandalf's
heritage in LotR Mellie
thanks Val,
I think we get a hint when he returns later as
gandalf the white
Yes, but no real details
i do too ghan
so Gandalf is gone and we here the Black riders
horse and get odd the path
il brb
no, and it really isn't important for the telling of
the story, however, it does help understand the full scope of
it.
* Aniwen is now known as Aniwen_brb
Just a hint, though
ok, and a little bit, when we hear about his meeting
with Saurman
which is later in the book.
Maybe you should proceed Rednell
sorry, i am jumping ahead a bit.
Frodo is wooired about Gandalf's disapearance as
is Gildor
The question is if the Ring is trying to bring
attention to Frodo, then what is giving Frodo the warning in
his heart that he should hide, before he even saw the black
rider?
At times it's difficult to hold yourself back
i think he just senses danger, but doesn't know what
it is
The ring
I think Gandalf had given Frodo warning about
the Nine
His common sense or Eru
Can we assume an animate force of good, just as
the ring is (nearly) animate evil?
The ring has a mind of it's own and maybe Frodo can
sense it
* Littleirena (pt@80ec8844.vc.5eb2c41d.net.hmsk) has joined
#Bilbos-Study
could be any of those. Frodo certainly did know that
there was danger lurking out there.
Hi Irina
hullo
Maybe the ring was heightening his senses, and
he had been prewarned too
yes val, but neither val nor frodo thinks the nine are
after the ring yet
What happens the next time they meet a black rider?
val=gandalf, sorry
Easy mistake Perwing
They are saved by the presence of teh Elves
they hear it snuffling
smelling after them
I liked that sound in the movie!!!
Sorry for the distraction
it was spooky Calenthang
yes, Frodo says that the black rider was crawling
towards him when the voices of the Elves scared it off.
Notice how the black rders behave in a very
animalistic way
Aye,it was
good point Ghan, why do you think Tolkien did that?
It's main sense is smell, so it would be
sniffinght e ground for a trail
this part of the book scared me
It's more like sniffing for the ring
Don't you think
?
Our perception of the riders changes as we get
to know more about them. At Bree and Amon Sul they have grown
in stature
They definitely become more frightening.
the unknown is almost always scaryier than the
known
Seeing them as dangerous animals is a very
Shire-style way of looking at them
I wonder if the animalistic behaviour is indicative of
the loss of their free will when they were taken by the Dark
Lord?
I agree
in the beginning they are more like dogs or wolves,
than men.
I agree there, Nell. they have little humanity
left
Or maybe none
Maybe the way a being without a body moves too
besides that is wasn't yet dark was it?
no it was not yet dark Grondy.
they were more powerful in the dark
a lot more powerful
They were?
Yes, grondy
Yes, darkness was their ally
I never knew that
Most creations of Morgoth and Sauron could not
stand the sun
yes, as were the Orcs
so maybe their eyesight wasn't as good in the
daylight and so they had tomuse their sense of smell
Back to the appearance of the Elves.
that is an excellent point grondy,
They were Blind, Grondy
ok, elves
More than just good luck, in the circumstances
They only had their sense of smell
thought they are scared of water
right?
yes, they were
all exept the king
The Elves had been told to watch for frodo?
yes they did not like water Littleirena
Most evil things were scared of water due to Ulmo
ahh
I don't think so G-b-G
they had been told he would come, i don't remember
they had been told to watch out for him.
that's true, Val, but i forget about Ulmo, when talking
about Lotr. but that makes sense.
At this point in the story, it appears to be just by
chance that the Elves meet the Hobbits.
another coincidence
Frodo does make the remark" This is indeed a strange
chance"
What is Sam
's reaction to the Elves?
and sam was so excited about seeing the elves
Wonder
Sam was awestruck
Well since he always wanted to meet them....
he's astonished, finally he get's to see the elves
oboy! O bOy! Elves Sir
He is incredibly excited
Was he disappointed?
no...
not in the least
Speachless
What about Pippin?
Just sleepy
he was more cool about it, "so they're elves, i want
food and sleep!"
"eh, so what?"
yeah, I got that impression too.
But they must have made him feel safe to go from
being afraid to thinking more about sleep
true, good point
I don't think Pippin had a lot of problems with
sleeping.
Remember Pippin has not had the benefit of
stories fromBilbo and gandalf
so his perception is limited by his knowledge
Although, he certainly enjoyed the bread
Lembas was it?
Plus Piipin is a Took... he's perhaps seen elves
before
oh, I think he had Bilbo's stories , just didn't
put too much store in them
that is a possiblilty I never considered.
hmmm, interesting Val, do you really think that Pippin
could have seen elves before?
he is still a tweenager after all
The Tooks got about a lot more than other Hobbits
I like Val's idea -- even Tom knew of the
Bucklanders
yes that is true,
hmmm, this is very interesting
And elves were known in the shire to pass west
And they are still in the Shire and there were Hobbits
who saw the Elves going West
Hobbits did see them
All this talking about Elves makes me feel nice!
It's so mystic
Who was the Elf that met the Hobbits?
They are the real good guys in LotR
gildor
Gildor
but Elves were not important to most in the Shire
Of the house of Finrod....real good guys
How did Frodo greet them?
Gildor Inglorion of the house of finrod
Elen sila lumen omentielvo
They didn't bother in either's affairs so thre
wasn't and danger from them
*
which means, Calenthang?
A star shines upon the hour of our meeting
How did Gildor react to this?
he said they didn't need any company but their own
He was pleased to meet a Hobbit who spoke
Quenya?
Thats right Ghan
Sindarin actually
Indeed he was quite impressed.
Good point, Cal
Thank you
that was later then
I am assuming it was Quenya since Gildor refers to it
as the ancient tongue
he told the other elves to be careful, and speak no
secrets because here is a scholar in the ancient gongue
tongue*
OMG
Me too -- but i think Cal is right. the phrase
was first used in a famous battle of the first(?) age
Rednell you are right
I am sorry Ghan
but they would normally talk toi the hobbits in
westron
but then since they were woodelves then Sindarin would
be their language wouldn't it?
They were Noldor
they were high elves
Or at least Gildor was
oh were they?
so I think they were talking in Sidarin
noldor
Yes they said they were Exiles (=Noldor)
yep ghan
Gildor was of the house of finrod
that is right, I remember reading that now.
But can anyone remember who first said elen
sila lumenn' omentielvo?
Frodo I think!
Frodo said that
no one in ch 3 in lotr exept frodo... :)
yes, it was Frodo
* Ghan-buri-Ghan (pt@d437675f.telkom-ipnet.14056081.za.hmsk)
Quit (Quit: Leaving)
I found the exchange between Frodo and Gildor
interesting. Why is Gildor being so elusive and not reveal
what he knows about the black riders.
because it was not a safe place to discuss it?
he doesn't think it's his "responsibility" to tell
so as not to scare them even more, especially as
Gandalf hadn't told them more
Perwing, now that sounds very Elvish
Heh
Perwing has it right!
* Littleirena (pt@80ec8844.vc.5eb2c41d.net.hmsk) Quit (Quit:
Leaving)
i'm getting into characher...
very good perwing
I don't know Grondy, he was making them sound pretty
dangerous.
I think Gildor has an idea that Frodo is being
persude
That is a very good point, Val.
He also knows there are riders ahead and behind
them
Oh yes, Gildor knows what they are
Would Frodo have continued if he really knew what lied
ahead?
I think he would
probably he would, he didn't wanna take the ring back
to the shire
not sure, but i would like to think so
but it isn't his job to take part, he is a
messenger
The futer of Middle-earth depends on it
I think he knew he had to...he knew they would
find him in the Shire
He didn't have a choice actually
that makes rivendell and gandalf's advise his target
for the journey
This is very early in the journey. I wonder if he
would have had Gildor told him what the Black Riders really
were and what they were capable of.
Sam has told him about the one he heard at the
Gaffer's by then
Gildor will tell him nothing that Gandalf has
not already mentioned though
yes, but they had already seen the Black Rider by that
time.
Gildor was protecting Frodo from the whole truth
he tried to make gildor tell him, but gildor refused
so frodo shouldn't get too scared and call off the whole
journay
Do you get the impression that this annoyed Frodo?
I think Frodo felt he was being kept in the dark
not really, what annoyed both frodo and gildor was
that gandalf hadn't shown up yet
* Ghan-buri-Ghan (pt@d437675f.telkom-ipnet.14056081.za.hmsk) has
joined #bilbos-study
I think it concerned them that Gandalf hasn't arrived
he was more disappointed than annoyed i think
worried more than anything...the news worried
Gildor too
i agree with Val, it was more concern than anything
But Gildor tries to brush it off: "Do not meddle in
teh affairs of Wizards, for they are suble and quick to anger."
Go not to the elves for advice for they say both
yes and no
gildor gave him an advise in the end though, to travel
soon and as fast as he could
what did Frodo ask for?
And to take friends with him
right val
Did he gave a horse to Frodo?
He wanted to know what the riders were
Or I am mistaken....
where he could find courage
No horse
yes, courage
Thank you Grondmaster
And Gildor replies with something we will hear again.
"Courage is found in unlikely places"
Courage is found in unlikely places
Gildor makes a promise as well.
To send out messengers
yep
"now i'll sleep" end of chapter!
The Wandering Companies shall know of your journey.
Gildor seems to have accepted that a Hobbit will be
the best hope for Middle Earth.
And so too will the Nazgul if they capture a
messenger...a bit dodgy I thought
Goldor also named Frodo: Elf-friend
oh, but we know the Valar are watching over the
Ringbearer.
do we??
Gildor said it was more than chance their meeting
Frodo also felt it was more than chance. Not to
mention the "sense" that told Frodo to hide from the
approaching rider.
Several constellations came into the sky at
their meeting too
right
yes, but at this point we don't know anything about the
Valor
6th sense?
i have that too...
but then again, i have the ring also... lool
Yes, Val and the elves are singing to Varda as
well
we don't need to Mellie.
May Elbereth protect you
you are correct, and i forgot about Elbereth
Elbereth was Varda
who created the stars
To watch over the Children in the darkness
but do the elves singing Elbereth's praise tell us the
Valar's are watching over Frodo???
ur loosing me here...
not directly, Perwing.
It could imply that, without making it
definitive
They just say, may Elbereth watch over you
That is why we are discussing the book chapter by
chapter, so we can dig deeper
hvorfor ikke lyd?
which is a blessing as such
sorry, wrong window
Yes, Grondy, its a standard blessing, but the
name had power over the Nine as well
They would flee from someone calling it
Next week we will discuss Shortcut to Mushrooms and
The Old Forest, which will take us to the meeting of Tom
Bombadil
Never heard of him
?
what I meant was Gildor was giving them his
blessing for their journey
lol
Even I have heard of him
certainly the Black Rider fled at the coming of the
Elves
Yes, I see that Grondy
I knew you did Val
If the elves were from Valinor, they would have
the light of the trees which the nine would fear
No, Gildor knew Frodo was going to be very important
in the conquering of evil.
the inate light of the trees
Aaahhh the trees
Gildor probably didn't know until AFTER he talked to
Frodo though
"My heart forbodes that, ere all is ended, you, Frogo,
son of Drogo, will know more of these fell things than Gildor
Inglorion. May Elbereth protect you."
he knew as he was talking to Frodo
I think he knew a Hobbit carried something of great
importance, and it wasn't until he had talked to Frodo that he
knew who the Hobbit was.
I don't think he knew of the ring, just that The
Black riders wouldn't be after him for just any old reason
He'd learned much from Bilbo too
Probably more than Bilbo realised he had told him
yes he said he had met Bilbo in that very spot as
Bilbo was leaving the Shire
And the Rangers had been guarding the Shire for
years too
but Bilbo didn't know the significance of the Ring.
I don't think Goldor knew ahead of time that a
hobbit would be carrying a great burden until after he met
Frodo
I must go, I'm at work in 5 hrs
bye Val.
G'nite Val
Thanks, see you later
bye val
OK Val take care
cheers all
bye Val
I am in school in 6 hours
* Valedhelgwath (pt@6ca5eca3.6ca5ecfb.213.78.imsk) Quit (Quit:
Leaving)
G'nite Cal
Good night all
Good class Nell, are we done?
Shall we retire to the other room?

End of #bilbos-study buffer Sun Feb 16 18:58:14 2003

Samwisegamgee
Posts: 607

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

That sounds like a great class, I wish I could have been there.
And thank you Grondy and Val for the wonderful class last week, it was one of the best yet in my opinion. :thumbup: :D

User avatar
valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Week 17 - 21Fellowship of the Ring - Book I

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I'm sorry folks, but I cannot make this one (even though you are in session as I write this). I will be away at sea for most of next week and need to get caught up with the Reading Discussion Group (as well as the rest of the forum) before I go away.

I look forward to reading the transcript though. My thoughts are in there with you.

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