Assignment 8

THINGOL77
Posts: 157

Assignment 8

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

1) What does this suggest to you?


well i think that it means that had they been united,they woud have defeated morgot, or maybe just harm him enough for he not to be able to harm them so much....but that is just if they had been united...

) Why did Turgon leave Gondolin for this battle and not for the Dagor Bragollach


maybe because he thought that earlier was not teh time yet for elves to be really united, and it would have been a waste, i mean to fight if they had no chance to win....


the sons of Feanor break and leave the field, while the forces of Fingolfin and his sons manage to fight on, either holding their territory or fighting to the death. Is there any particular reason for this?


mhhmm, maybe because they were influenced by feanor´s oath...,and they were afraight of treason..., by the rest of thier kin ;)

how important was this battle in the way of future Elf/Human relationships? Can many of the future prejudices be seen to stem directly from this battle?


definitely i think that elves could never forget that....could any of us forget it if it were us there fighting?....


quote:
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Thus ended Nirnaeth Arnoediad, as the sun went down beyond the sea. Night fell in Hithlum, and there came a great storm of wind out of the West.
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Any comments?



well, that might be a metafore telling that destiny or fate was reaching them and that valinor´s power was not at their reach....that maybe they had to face consecuences by thier own,even if they were bitter ones...

any idea why easterling let themselves to be seduced by morgoth and did not pay attention on what experience taught them through elves???..... :cyclops:

User avatar
Tinúviel
Posts: 510

Assignment 8

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

1)That the Elves have the power or the potential to defeat Morgoth, but during times of peace they have become too comfortable and reluctant to make the first move and only push forward against their enemy in times of great need and passion (hatred). If they could all agree to make a united force in a well planned attack on Angband then surely they would be victorious (like Thingol77 said) but because many of the Elves are more content to wait for better days - in self denial of the truth - they are unable to muster a formidable united army.

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Assignment 8

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I will leave responding to your answers for a little while, Thingol, so that others can post their views if they wish to.
any idea why easterling let themselves to be seduced by morgoth and did not pay attention on what experience taught them through elves???.....
The Men who Morgoth managed to seduce the easiest, were those who he found before they entered Beleriand. These did not have the lore of the Eldar to protect them from Morgoth's lies, and so many of them took his words as truth.

He also attempted to seduce the Edain too. Disguised as one of their lords (Amlach), he spoke to the Edain about the lies the Eldar were telling the Edain about Valinor, and how they were keeping the light from them. His lies generally tried to turn allies against each other, generally by suggesting your friends were lying to you and attempting to rule the world themselves.

Because the Edain had lived amongst the Eldar, they were able to see through Melkor's lies, but many of the Easterlings that he seduced did not have this advantage. Coming into Beleriand with the knowledge that the Eldar were the deceitful ones who were planning on world domination, they would have been careful not to be seduced by the Eldar, believing themselves to be fighting on the right side.

THINGOL77
Posts: 157

Assignment 8

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

These did not have the lore of the Eldar to protect them from Morgoth's lies, and so many of them took his words as truth.


yes...,well...., i think you are right...,but maybe because we have followed all the story, it is dificult to understand...., is it not???..... :elf: nn[Edited on 19/2/2003 by THINGOL77]

MadWannabe
Posts: 170

Assignment 8

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

3) It seems to me the reason why the Sons of Feanor were able yo do that is because it was Morgoth let them...Stop that surprised look...Yes, Morgoth wanted them to go so that the Sons of Feanor will ensure the elves continued failure to defeat Morgoth this is because the oath of Feanor has worked in Morgoth's favor. As for the other questions...I have to think first... :dunce:

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McDLT
Posts: 25

Assignment 8

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I agree with MadWannabe in saying
because the oath of Feanor has worked in Morgoth's favor


Mind you I don't believe that Morgorth allowed it or let them. I think Morgorth feared the sons of Feanor. He knew Feanor (they had been "friends") and knew of his temperment and that of Feanor's sons.

Just my thoughts.
~ McDLT ~

THINGOL77
Posts: 157

Assignment 8

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

He knew Feanor (they had been "friends") and knew of his temperment and that of Feanor's sons.



be welcome Mcdlt...,enjoy the site....

well i think i remember there was said that feanor never paid attention on morgoth...in fact i think he despised and hated melkor....is it not? :elf:

MadWannabe
Posts: 170

Assignment 8

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

:D
What you said is right Thingol77, I was looking for a counterargument. Feanor was never "friends" with Morgoth, in fact Feanor was suspicious of Morgoth and never trusted him. And Feanor's art and craftsmanship was his own and not taught by Morgoth.
BTW, McDLT, I forgot to welcome to the reading discussion group which consists of both talented and intelligent beings. :P:

Erkenbrand
Posts: 41

Assignment 8

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Are you shamelessly calling yourself a talented and intelligent being? :funnylaugh:

4) This was indeed the first time that Men betrayed the Elves. However, it was not the only time they did that. The prejudice would stem from the repeated betrayals that the Elves would face, rather than from this incidence alone.nn[Edited on 21/2/2003 by Erkenbrand]

MadWannabe
Posts: 170

Assignment 8

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yep... :P: :funnylaugh:
Anyways, more important things at hand, Erkenbrand is right, and it is true that this is not the first time they did it, blinded by promises of wealth and power. This battle is to show the weakness in men and this is meant to show that the elves battle aginst Morgoth was the elves alone and not men. Therefore, after that battle, few men if any ever took part in a battle against Morgoth side by side. The prejudice that Elrond had against men( not normal men but the race of the Numenoreans) was that they were too weak to resist the temptation of the ring. However as can be read, the betrayal led to the estrangment(dun know how to spell... :) ) of elves and men except three houses of the Edain.

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