:verysad: How sad that this happened; however, I have mixed emotions about this. Without the above aforementioned, we would have had neither The Hobbit nor The Lord of the Rings, or at least not the same thrilling versions of them. :elfwink:Without the teachings of the Valar it is unlikely Feanor would ever have had the skills to make the Silmarils from which so much trouble came. Also if they had not been summoned to Valinor, there would have been no ban of the Noldor, or the kin-slaying at Aqualonde.
How is the way Dwarves were created reflected in their nature?
Aulë also wanted children, but as they were not part of Ilúvatar's plan, Aulë in secret created the Dwarves underground from the substance he found there. As they were made in secret they became secretive in their nature.
Because Aulë didn't create the Dwarves out of malice, was this secretivness Ilúvatar's doing when he gave the Dwarves their free will, a part of Aulë's punishment/pentinence, or was that the prophesy that there would be conflict between the Dwarves and the firstborn?
Although the group of Teleri that became the Sindar did not make it to Aman, they were considered greater than the other groups of elves that did not go. Why is this?
Sindar were considered greater than other elves, because although they haven't seen the Two Trees they were 'enlightened' by Melian and Elwe. That does show that light (or wisdom) isn't assigned to Aman only.
How am I doing? I'm thoughtfully scraching my head ...
Like Grondy mentioned, the Dwarves were created in secret and so this is reflected in their nature. When Aule created them, the Valar were also at war with Melkor. Having the foresight to see they might be assailed by Melkor, Aule created them to be hardy and unyielding. Aule was impatient for the Children of Eru to arrive because he wished to teach his crafts to them. When he made the Dwarves, therefore, this thought was foremost in his mind. The Dwarves have always had a love of the Earth for this reason, mining, smelting, forging etc, like their maker.
Because the Dwarves were not part of Eru's plan, and thus not part of the third theme of music that he wove, there was liable to be discord between the Dwarves and his Children. This is also true with the creations of Yavanna, because Aule also kept his council from her. At the end of the chapter, when she tells him of the Ents who will be guarding the forests, he merely replies that the Dwarves will require wood. Trees are Yavanna's creation, and yet Aule seems to hold them in very little regard. This is also shown in the nature of the Dwarves.
Hi Orange. I'm pleased you are still with us.
Yes, the Sindar were greater than the other Moriquendi (Elves who did not see the light) because of Elwe and Melian. Elwe (Thingol) had seen the light, and Melian was Maiar. Between them, they would be able to teach their people many things that the other elves in Middle Earth at that time would not be privy to.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the other questions before we move on to the next assignment, or have any queries of their own?
Sorry I am so late on this assignment! I like what Grondy said about dwarves, though. But why are they not in the Third Theme, Val? I guess you sort of lost me.
I also liked what orange said about the Sindar. Also I think they were respected because they knew Middle-Earth better than the Elves from Aman because they had been there longer. For the Elves that went there from Aman, it was always a place of exile, for the Sindar it was home.
: To these the Valar had given a land and a dwelling-place. Even among the radiant flowers of the Tree-lit gardens of Valinor, they longed still at times to see the stars; and therefore a gap was made in the great walls of the Pelóri, and there in a deep valley that ran down to the see the Eldar raised a high green hill: Túna it was called.
What wall? What are Pelóri? This confused me quite a lot.
I'm actually beginning to enjoy the read, and though it's still not that interesting, it's becoming it more and more.
Pelori are the mountain range along the edge of Aman, which hides it from the ocean (metaphorical wall) get me?
Welcome Plastic... Now sit down and don't disturb the class.
As Plastic said, the Pelori are a chain of mountains that form the North, East and South borders of Valinor. They were built by the Valar with the intention of keeping Melkor out, and as such they were the tallest mountains in Arda, and their sides were sheer.
The only gap in this range was the Calacirya through which the Elves in Valinor could view the stars to the east, and the Telori could see the light of the Two Trees.
But why are they not in the Third Theme, Val? I guess you sort of lost me.
The three themes of the Great Music was one of the topics I raised in the First Assignment, but the question never got answered. In the first chapters you read about the Great Music of the Valar, and how from that musical theme Ea was created. The music was conducted in three parts (remember how the first two were interrupted by Melkor, and how the third theme was done by Eru alone).
Tolkien doesn't specifically say what these three themes represent in the creation of the Earth, but it is likely that the First theme represented the unbuilt forming of Ea which the Valar first entered. The second theme represents the shaping of Ea by the Valar once they had entered Ea, and the third theme, sung by Eru alone, is the Creation of the Children of Eru. The Children of Eru were the Elves and Men, not Dwarves, and thus Dwarves were not part of this music.
While on the subject, be careful not to confuse the Three Themes of the Great Music with the Second Great Music. The First Great Music created Ea and everything in it, while the Second Great Music deals with what happens after the end of Time when Ea is no more. This second Great Music involves Men, and it is the Gift of Man that they will participate in this music. Tolkien hints that Dwarves might also get to participate in this Second Music. It's theme is obviously Heaven.
I like your point, Sam, that the Sindar knew Middle Earth as home, while to the Noldor it was a place of Exile.
Ooooh! I see... It's the wall thingie that got me. But hey, it was pretty late when I started reading that chapter, and even later when I eventually finished it so don't blame me. Normally, I would have understood... Thanks
I get it now Val...do you think that Iluvatar knew that the dwarves were going to be, even if he didn't put them in the Third Theme? At several parts in the Sil., it states the Eru knows everything that will happen and nothing can be hidden from him. He seems angry at Aule when he finds the dwarves, but not surprised.
From what I understand of the three themes of the Great Music, Aule would have created the Dwarves during the second theme while the earth was being shaped. Eru alone took part in the third theme, melding the elements of the earlier two themes and adding parts of his own making. Only after the music had finished did the real work begin.
From this reasoning, my opinion is that Eru would have been aware of Aule's creation during the Music itself, but it would have been something he had not intended to happen, nor something that he could have stopped occuring once it had been sung. The life the Dwarves eventually had, however, was not given to them by Aule (he was not capable of doing that), but by Eru. What their eventual fate was, ie. were they tied to the fate of Ea like the Elves, or free of its constraints like Men (and part of the Second Great Music) I am unsure about.
Ai! Now the mystery of dwarves is realy cleared up for me!
In chapter 3 it mentions that many woes befell because the Valar had summoned the Elves to Valinor. Why do you think this was?
Confounding q. Maybe elves were suposed to stay in Middle Earth where they were created? Valar should have aided them on the spot, that is. But Melkor would probably cause mischief anyway.
The three themes of the Great Music was one of the topics I raised in the First Assignment, but the question never got answered.
I think Eru gave them the idea like songwriter giving the band a theme to play. The music they then created was ad-lib around that concept.
What they played in music eventually came to be
Eru used his powers to turn their music into a vision
The vision was of Ea, and the future they had created through the music
Once they had seen the vision, they went into Ea and made it happen
The three themes are the main events or interactions between Eru and Melkor
1st theme was the building of Ea
2nd theme was the rebuilding after the war at the end of the 1st age
I think the 3rd theme came when Eru had to reshape the world after Numenor invaded Valinor
The 3rd theme might be the Final Battle at the End
In the music, you see Eru changing the theme to adapt to Melkor's rebellion, so the themes to mirror Eru's interactions with Melkor in Ea
Why are some Noldor golden haired while the norm is black?
Why does Feanor burn with such a powerful inner spirit?
Why did the Noldor have dealings with Melkor?
The sons of Finarfin were Finrod the faithful (who was afterwards named Felagund, Lord of Caves), Orodreth, Angrod, and Aegnor; these tour were as close in friendship with the sons of Fingolfin as though they were all brothers. A sister they had, Galadriel, most beautiful of all the house of Finwë; her hair was lit with gold as though it had caught in a mesh the radiance of Laurelin.
There she was often in the company of the sons of Fëanor, her kin; but to none was her heart's love given. Ar-Feiniel she was called, the White Lady of the Noldor, for she was pale though her hair was dark, and she was never arrayed but in silver and white.
although the marriage of Indis and Elenwe might have been noted solely because involving those in direct line to the throne.
There Elenwë the wife of Turgon was lost, and many others perished also; and it was with a lessened host that Fingolfin set foot at last upon the Outer Lands. Small love for Fëanor or his sons had those that marched at last behind him, and blew their trumpets in Middle-earth at the first rising of the Moon
There shining fountains played, and in the courts of Turgon stood images of the Trees of old, which Turgon himself wrought with elven-craft; and the Tree which he made of gold was named Glingal, and the Tree whose flowers he made of silver was named Belthil. But fairer than all the wonders of Gondolin was Idril, Turgon's daughter, she that was called Celebrindal, the Silver-foot, whose hair was as the gold of Laurelin before the coming of Melkor. The Silmarillion, 1977, p. 126
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