The New Two Film Hobbit

The forthcoming Hobbit movie
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#1 » Thu May 14, 2009 12:48 pm

With The Hobbit now encompassing two films, instead of one with a bridge, where will they break?
What is a good enough first break, that will leave sufficiant material to fill the second half without an over load?

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Eldorion
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#2 » Thu May 14, 2009 6:54 pm

GDT suggested a while ago that they might break at the death of Smaug, but that was while the bridge film idea was still being kicked around, so I don't know. The way I see it there will be two main storylines: Bilbo's journey (from The Hobbit, the book) and the White Council/Dol Guldur, loosely based on the Appendices. At first there will be only one though, they will diverge when Gandalf leaves (assuming that much of the story's structure is retained).

There will need to be a climax for the first film, obviously, but I think it could be something along the lines of FOTR's; not a massive battle but still emotional. I can't think of a Boromir character who dies at an appropriate point in the story though, so a suspenseful point would be better. In this case the death of Smaug might work, with the non-reading cinema audience not knowing what happened to the dwarves. The invasion of Dol Guldur would have to be balanced with the Battle of the Five Armies though. It could be put in Film One, but that leaves the possibility of having too little material to work with in Film Two.

:?:

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Gandalfs Beard
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#3 » Fri May 15, 2009 2:10 am

I concur Eldorion. I think the first film is still likely to end with the death of Smaug. The humour and lightheartedness can then be maintained throughout it. The darker, more adult material will then be consigned to the second Hobbit film.

Then the second film will probably open with the immediate aftermath. Someone will wonder aloud "what's happening with Gandalf." Then it will cut to a flashback revealing Gandalf, the White Council etc. The first such scene would probably be a continuation of a brief set-up scene in the first film so people will understand it's a flashback (sort of how the battle with the Balrog is handled in LOTR).

I suspect this will take up the first third of film 2, then there will be cuts back to Bilbo and the Dwarves as the time-frames converge somewhere in the middle of the film. This should then lead to Gandalf meeting up with the crew just before the end the second third of the film. Then the Battle of 5 armies can commence, taking up most of the last third. This would of course be followed up with a denoument--Bilbo returning home etc. The very last scene should be Gollum leaving the mountain cave and Gandalf smoking his pipe looking perplexed as Bilbo tells his tale to a young Frodo--thus setting up LOTR just in case the bridging film is never made.

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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#4 » Fri May 15, 2009 7:13 am

GB, I love the final scene you proposed there with the storytelling and young Frodo.

As for ending with Smaugs Death, I didn't like it at first. That part comes so late in the story that I felt there would be too much story for film 1 and too much special effects in film two.

The more I think of it, the more I like it. Film one would be an adventure story. Complete with Journey and discovery. Film two is an action film. Complete with battle and glory.

I'm not sure about where and when to work in the white counsel. A Balrog battle styled flashback is a hit or miss with me. I loved the way it was handled in Two Towers. But I don't know about handling Dol Guldor in the same fashion. Consider that TT was one on one combat. It was a short side story that Gandalf would relate to, and then move on. If GDT really wants to bring in the White Counsel and all it's work againt the Necromancer, and maybe even add in a little of Sauruman's switch to the shadow; I think he will need more than a short flashback to pull it off.

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Gandalfs Beard
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#5 » Fri May 15, 2009 11:49 am

I was just using the example of the Balrog scene to indicate the flashback approach. It would have to be much longer and would roughly cover much of the first half of film 2, but as the Council sequence catches up in time with Bilbo and the dwarves we would see more inter-cutting.

There would definitely have to be at least one set-up/lead-in Gandalf/ Council scene though in film 1. Perhaps two. But it would leave off at a cliff-hanger for that story line so it will be clear in the second film.

And, yes, the first movie would then be more in keeping with the Children's Adventure Story/Fairy Tale approach. Then the second film would become closer to the action style of LOTR. That's how I would do it and how I intuit PJ and Del Toro are going to film it.

In the end I think the the combo of PJ and Del Toro is going to be very Terry Gilliam-esque, particularly in the first film. And Thank You 8-) ; I'm glad you like my ending :mrgreen: . Knowing PJ's and Del Toro's approach to film-making, I have a really good feeling about these films and I think they will end up much like I described.

Gandalf's Beard

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Barrel the pony
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#6 » Mon May 18, 2009 9:49 pm

Film 1 ends with the death of Smaug and a short, five minute aftermath in Laketown. At this point nothing much has happened with the white council, except that they have gathered, we have seen snippets of other threads (eg we see Aragorn as a youth) and they may have reached a decision about whether the necromancer is Sauron or not. We will also see Saruman as a good being, with a few subtle hints about his future.
Then, film two starts with the aftermath of Smaug's death from the dwarves' point of view. After ten or fifteen minutes of dwarven angst, we go back to the white council, who are getting ready to march off to Dol Guldur. They get involved in a few skirmishes on the edges of the forest, etc. Meanwhile, the whole Bilbo vs Thorin tensions rising plot thread is getting stretched to its limit, also we get a view from Bard's perspective of the Laketown dilemma. Back in Gandalf's plot thread, we follow the White Council as they fight their way to Dol Guldur, eventually we get to see the great battle between Galadriel and the Necromancer (I think that's right, I might be thinking of the sacking of Dol Guldur in the war of the ring) with Gandalf and Saruman and Elrond and the rest of the White Council pwning dark lord ass. There are a few cuts across to what's happening with Bilbo, then a twenty minute cool time after Dol Guldur is kaput, in which Gandalf wraps up and Bilbo hands over the arkenstone. The Battle of the Burning plains gets geared up, Gandalf arrives, there's some more pwnage, Thorin and his nephews bite the biscuit, and Bilbo mourns for a bit then goes home rich. Whether or not we see him actually return to the shire is irrelevant, really.
Anyway, what I can't figure out is how they will make the second installment take up three hours and yet keep the first one under three hours, when so much of the story is in part one. If it is. You never know, they might cut off the story just as they get to Smaug's lair, although starting a movie with Bilbo's encounter with him would undermine the significance and awesomeness of the moment.

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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#7 » Tue May 19, 2009 10:31 am

Barrel you hit on exactly my fear. So much adventure is packed into the first movie that to balance with the second "might" be an issue. Adding in the return to hobbiton with the auction would be a good balance if the second movie is running short on running time. It would also help make good on Bilbo's "There and Back Again" title.
Moving the Smaug engagment into movie 2 would be a good thing for running time and film length. But story wise it would be atrocious. Arriving at the Lonely Mountain does not make for a very climatic finish for a film. And I really don't see an earlier point in the book that would make for a good stopping point story wise. Maybe the escape from the Elves could be an early ending, thoughts?

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Gandalfs Beard
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#8 » Tue May 19, 2009 11:13 am

I don't think we have too much to fear Show. I'm 99% certain that the death of Smaug will still end the first film. And I don't think they will put a lot of the Gandalf/White Council stuff in the first film because it would be distracting and not the right tone. I expect we will see a couple of set up scenes so we understand what Gandalf is up to--but most of that material is likely to appear in the first half of film 2.

Gandalf's Beard

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Beren
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#9 » Tue May 19, 2009 2:02 pm

I'm not so sure about it ending with the death of Smaug. With it that way, the second film almost ends up being a bridge film (in a way), anyways. I think when they made the decision to "film The Hobbit" in two films, they meant to split "The Hobbit" into two films, not all the other stuff. So, taking that into consideration, it seems to me that they'll end with the dwarves being captured by the elves. There are two other possible points: when they escape from the elves, and when they arrive at Laketown. But these just seem like weak ending points to me.

It just seems to me that ending after Smaug's death will not leave much for film 2. It will just leave a lot of death and destruction and "pwning" as Barrel put it. It would be a lame film.
I think that the film-makers will want to end film 1 with something that will make the audience come back. If the dwarves are stuck in an elven dungeon, that seems like a good cliff-hanger.

But maybe I'm just on a different planet, lol.

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Gandalfs Beard
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The New Two Film Hobbit

Post#10 » Tue May 19, 2009 6:54 pm

Well if you are going to spread the other material out in "real time" a cliff-hanger ending makes most sense. So being stuck in the Elves' dungeon would be the best plot point for a cliff-hanger ending 8-) . I can't really think of any other decent end points. I think it would have to be the dungeons or Smaug.

But as you can tell I've kind of got stuck on the idea of Smaug ending the first film now :lol: .

GB

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