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The forthcoming Hobbit movie
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leelee
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Post#51 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:21 am


I disagree most strongly with you dearest Brego, I felt nauseated and disturbed in my heart when I saw that scene. I agree that the elves were tactile, at least those who were smiths and artisans, that is a given. However Tolkien was a stickler for proper protocol in real life and I believe that the high elves and those even higher would have observed absolute and proper protocol in all situations even unto death. That gesture was only proper if between say deeply attached brother and sister , but probably husband and wife alone. And when you remember that during Bilbo Baggin's stay at Imladris when there were banquets the elves usually did not touch a bite that was set before them for hours and hours, preferring to listen intently to the lays and stories of heroic deeds. No I think that was highly improper and quite frankly unless proved otherwise when the movie is seen in entirety, obscene and for the very reason the high elves, Maia and so on were so aware of high thought and protocol that a breach was shocking, In my opinion. And as I have noted on another thread, the fact that the professor was deeply disturbed about women beginning to wear formal trowsers to church and other things that would seem so minor to his peers, so too I think he would disapprove heartily upon seeing that scene. And his opinion would be my only guide line.



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brego
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Post#52 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:01 pm


Dearest Lee Lee, I respect your opinion and do understand it.  I will truly never forgive PJ if this does end up more than as I described above....  I know that it will never come to this however.



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Allyssa
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Post#53 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:16 pm


Tactile elves. A sticky one, that's for sure. I do recall reading somewhere that Galadriel tended to be 'motherly', yet she does not behave this way publicly. We don't see any of the other elves behave this way. Consider Legolas and his fairly lengthy association with the Fellowship. We don't see him ever touch Aragorn, yet he seems to be quite fond of him. Perhaps it is supposed to be a habit of female elves only?



I had always thought that elves expressed affection with words more than gestures - words being their favourite tools. I have in mind Elladan's words to the terrified Gimli on the Paths of the Dead, and Finrod Felagund's lengthy conversation with Andreth (very touching) in Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth. And yes, I agree that protocol would have been important to them, as it often is with those of considerable age ;). We have also forgotten the elves' telepathathic abilities which would further make physical contact redundant. It will be interesting to see how PJ continues to represent Galadriel and Gandalf's relationship.


"May the Angels Guide"

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leelee
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Post#54 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:12 pm


You know that do you dear Brego, hmm, New Zealand is just a hop and a skip from Australia. Hmmm. And you know that eh, your last name is not also Jackson or Walsh now is it?blush



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brego
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Post#55 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:34 pm


Alas no Lee Lee, and yes close to NZ here....  I have been to Christchurch and Aukland but not to Wellingwood.  Next holiday I think Ill go.  Its about a 3 hour flight and isnt too expensive.  I would like to go to the Weta Cave which is kind of a museum of Weta Workshop and I imagine would be crammed full of goodies. 



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leelee
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Post#56 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:25 am


I know all about the Weta workshop and the geniuses there. I saw a documentary on it and it was fab. So if I make it there around the same time as you  we can all troop about and take a zillion pictures. My little one just wants to see Frodo,poor thing and Baggend. Nothing much really and she is terrified of orcs and Gullum so.......



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galin
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Post#57 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:06 pm



I do recall reading somewhere that Galadriel tended to be 'motherly', yet she does not behave this way publicly. We don't see any of the other elves behave this way. Consider Legolas and his fairly lengthy association with the Fellowship. We don't see him ever touch Aragorn, yet he seems to be quite fond of him. Perhaps it is supposed to be a habit of female elves only?




OK, I'll ask (surprise): where did you read this 'motherly' bit... besides somewhere I mean



 



Plus haven't you heard, Elves are androgynous! Or at least that's what I've been arguing against recently (well to simplify matters), with the creator of a website called 'Merin Essi ar Quenteli'



I also disagreed with another matter there that the Elves do not generally repeat names among themselves -- I say that they do -- and on this site both matters include citations or references to the books too. But what citations, exactly.



 



There's a lot of stuff on the net about Tolkien's Elves, in forums like these or on websites, and I'm not saying there isn't a 'motherly' quote from JRRT, or no description that gave you this impression, or even no quote from someone not named Tolkien...



... I'm just asking if you can source it please; although I'll certainly understand if somewhere has been forgotten by now.



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Amarië
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Post#58 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:38 pm


 



What weird places you got to Galin. Stay here, much safer. It won't be long before you can join in an arguement about wether or not dwarves start out looking like humans, then get a beard and... dwarfy...faces when they grow older. Oh PJ, why can't you see what you are doing to Tolkien's world...



But now you made me curious. Why wouldn't they repeat names? "My name is Bob, now let's never speak of it again!" "Who was that then?" "Can't say, his name has been said once and can't be repeated." "I thought he was a she?" "Could be, it's hard to tell." 



If I remember correctly from Morgoth's ring (HOME) they had a name their mother gave then, a name their father gave them and in addition what ever nick names they gained or chose. 


"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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galin
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Post#59 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:39 pm



But now you made me curious. Why wouldn't they repeat names? "My name is Bob, now let's never speak of it again!" "Who was that then?" "Can't say, his name has been said once and can't be repeated." "I thought he was a she?" "Could be, it's hard to tell." 




 





 



And now that you mention it Amarie, I think the name Bob was allowed to be repeated, just once; as long as the name was spoken backwards the second time.



elanorraine
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Post#60 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:17 am


lol.  boB.  There.  NOw no one must ever say it again...



I understood that Tolkien meant the elves did not name their children after other elves.  This makes a kind of logic, when you remember that elves generally don't die, so - can you imagine if there were a family name passed down from generation to generation, how confusing this would be!



Also, I gather that names are very individual in middle-earth and in Valinor, and there would be something... irreverent... about having the same name, recalling another person to the minds of those who are introduced to you instead of impressing your own name upon them.  Not really sure about this.



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