Bilbo

Delidia
Posts: 367

Bilbo

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I agree with Peredhil on that one. The Ring was safe in Bilbos care. But he put it on to often. Bilbo felt stretched because he used the ring for fun. It also says that eventually, if you use the Ring to the point when you dont take it off, you become invisible yourself.

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Bilbo

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

if you use the Ring to the point when you dont take it off, you become invisible yourself.
That would probably be true, but it would be the same sort of invisibility that the Ringwraiths enjoyed. The ring did not so much make a person invisible, as placing them in a kind of Ethereal Plane which bordered the Plane on which Middle Earth existed.

That is why Frodo was able to see the true forms of the Nazgul when wearing the ring on Weathertop. By putting it on he had entered their plane.

Wearing the ring too much would stretch a person's life, eventually turning them into a Wraith (just as the nine rings given to Men had done to them). Once a wraith, that person would then be living in the wraith world (Ethereal Plane, whatever you like to call it) and thus invisible to people in the normal world.

musicimprovedme
Posts: 240

Bilbo

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Good enough answers but WHY didn't the Ring wake up anyone's awareness just by its use? I thought that when Frodo wore it, it immediately became some sort of radar for the Black Riders to find it...and if the Riders were under Sauron's control, I would assume that Sauron had a way of knowing where the Ring is as long as it was active.
Saruman's ignorance I can understand somewhat. On one hand, he is a wizard and has some power to see things that others cannot see, on the other hand, he confers with others to get the big picture.

m_cassar
Posts: 2

Bilbo

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I was also under the impression that using the ring would attract the Black Riders.

Sauron was not aware that the ring was not destroyed until Gollum was captured in Mordor in the year 3017.

This still does not explain WHY the Ring didnt wake up anyones awareness - I guess the Ring can't call your awareness without you already being aware the ring still exists.

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Tinúviel
Posts: 510

Bilbo

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

At the time that Bilbo had the ring, Sauron thought that it was gone forever, so he wasn't actively looking for it which is why Bilbo was able to go on using it happily without being discovered.
The reason why the ring acts as a 'radar' for the dark powers when Frodo uses it is because now it is the only thing on Sauron's mind.
He is seeking it, all his thought is bent on it.

Also the Ringwraiths weren't out looking for the ring, they were busy in Minas Morgul perparing for the rise in power of their dark lord.
AND over time Sauron is growing in power making him more perceptive of the ring by the time that Frodo has it.

musicimprovedme
Posts: 240

Bilbo

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Also the Ringwraiths weren't out looking for the ring, they were busy in Minas Morgul perparing for the rise in power of their dark lord.
AND over time Sauron is growing in power making him more perceptive of the ring by the time that Frodo has it.


Correct, Arwen, the Wraiths were Sauron's nursemaids so to speak, at his bidding, both helping him recover his strength and doing his errands that he cannot do without a body. So is it fair to say that if Sauron's goal was something OTHER than the Ring, that his Wraiths would have been looking for something else or involved in some other task?

A related question is: do the Wraiths go finding the Ring FOR Sauron, or does Sauron point them in the right direction and say Sic'em? Who would have had a better idea where the Ring is located? Is Sauron using the seeing stones to know?nn[Edited on 24/2/2003 by musicimprovedme]

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Peredhil
Posts: 2167

Bilbo

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Sauron knew roughly where thw ring was after Bilbo brought it back to the Shire, so he told the Nazgul where to go. They, however, could sense the ring when they got near it. If they could have, they would have taken the ring for themselves (and no doubt fought each other for it), but they were just too scared of Sauron.
Sauron probably had no need for the Palantiri when locating the ring, because he had the Eye of Mordor, a more powerful seeing tool.
A mind full of fire and a fistful of steel.

musicimprovedme
Posts: 240

Bilbo

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Thanks for your responses everyone, I think I get it more now, that had been a huge gap in the story for me, and I was just PRAYING that the answer was not..."well the Ring woke up when Frodo got it so that Tolkien could write LOTR!"

Anyway, this thread is for Bilbo and so even if I'm going off this Ring matter, I will stay on the Bilbo topic.

I love ol' Bilbo. He was wildly entertaining in the Hobbit...running around without his handkerchief! and answering the door for dwarf after dwarf and showing them all resentful hospitality...I LOVE first chapter of the Hobbit! He is cordial, treated people well and I think he was treated in kind by others. I thought it was especially poignant in the story when Bilbo was at the Council of Elrond and started on and on about who would take the Ring...that he knew what they were all thinking etc but he couldn't do it after all he had a book to finish etc...and he started to go off the deep end about it like a fruity old man. Boromir tried to laugh but when he saw the rest of the Council defer to him in quiet respect he stopped short. Tolkien's use of the other characters to show that Bilbo was more than just a fruity old man but had indeed earned his stripes among these people was nothing short of brilliant. It showed me that he had proven both his strengths and weaknesses to his friends and was welcome to be himself...they showed him pity, sure, because they all understood that the Ring had just worn him out (as much as anyone was going to let it) but Bilbo was also respected as a beloved friend and an honorable hobbit...whose obligation to the Quest was understandably and unquestionably OVER.

Maybe a large difference (certainly not the only one) between Gollum and Bilbo is just that...Bilbo had FRIENDS to intervene when the Ring was starting to show its effects on Bilbo wayyy before they conquered him...and those people saw that Bilbo was worth saving from all that. Gollum, on the other hand, was cast out by his family and left to his own devices with it to find himself a cave.

EDITING NOW: I found that passage, it's only two sentences and three lines of my copy of LOTR but it taught me roughly half of everything I needed to know about Bilbo, and I think it's worth quoting.

Boromir looked in surprise at Bilbo, but the laughter died on his lips when he saw that all the others regarded the old hobbit with grave respect. Only Gloin smiled, but his smile came from old memories.


This passage is from FOTR The Council of Elrond, toward the end of the chapter. It is nestled in between Bilbo's outburst and Gandalf's reassurance that Bilbo is indeed off the hook...and I just love it.

Another huge sweet spot in my heart and lesson in hobbitry...is from the movie...and it's completely visual and personal for me, (probably wouldn't be as charming if they had done even a different take on the same scene). When Gandalf first sees Bilbo at the door before his birthday party, he stands back as if taking in the whole Bilbo, with his pipe in his mouth and cocks his head slightly with a twinkle in his eye and says so fondly... "Bil...bo...Baggins..." as if that's all that needs to be said! I just think that is so sweet. It's cool how Tolkien and in this case PJ used others' regard for Bilbo to show us what kind of guy he is.



[Edited on 25/2/2003 by musicimprovedme]

see? I'm not a complete PJ hater.nn[Edited on 25/2/2003 by musicimprovedme]

elemuel
Posts: 22

Bilbo

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Also, I think that eventhough the ring is a tool of evil, it is still a tool. And the intentions of the user color the result of using the tool. Gollum used the ring to kill and steal, Bilbo used it to avoid conflict, even with Smaug.I think Bilbo was "streched, spread thin" because of the battle between his good will and the ring's ultimate purposes. Gollum never complained of being "thin or wasted", he had little quarrel with the ring's intentions. :smoke:

musicimprovedme
Posts: 240

Bilbo

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

That's really interesting, I would say it's true enough that the Ring can to some degree be used to accomplish what the user wants from it...for a while, at least. I tend to agree that Bilbo had a stronger will to withstand the Ring's influences, which helps define his use of it. So do you think that Gollum just let the Ring have its way with him rather than being snared by the Ring before he knew it?

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