What is Sauron?

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Peredhil
Posts: 2167

What is Sauron?

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Sauron was a Maia, an Ainu of lesser degree than the Valar, originating in Aman. Each Maia was associated with usually one or two Valar, living under them; in Sauron's case it was Aulë (I think).

Maiar are, in essence, as are the Valar, spirits, with no permanent physical form; they could exist without ever taking shape if they so wished. Sauron, like most other Ainur, choose a human form when he could. (It aided him greatly in bringing about the Downfall of Numenor and corrupting Men to his cause.) At the time of LOTR, Sauron still didn't have enough energy from his and Morgoth's last defeat to take a physical form, which leads me to believe that the Eye was not a physical manifestation of Sauron, but merely a seeing tool that he used, like a Palantir (although he also possessed one of them).

So there's your answer: He was a spirit, choosing the form of a man when he needed it; the eye was not him. :winking:
A mind full of fire and a fistful of steel.

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

What is Sauron?

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

You posted that one just as I was about to write an answer myself, Peredhil. I agree pretty much with everything you have mentioned there. The only thing I would add is that although a Maiar can theoretically take any form, after the fall of Numenor, Sauron was unable to take any form that was fair.

Delidia
Posts: 367

What is Sauron?

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Thanx Pat! *hugs him*
LOL, Val. that happens all the time. Dont ya hate it?

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Aulë
Posts: 1232

What is Sauron?

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Well yes indeed Delidia! That traitor Sauron was a maia beneath me....I taught him A LOT OF THINGS!!! But he just took that knowledge with him and turned over to my darned brother Melkor!!! :soangry:
Life's a piece of sheit, when you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true
You'll see its all a show, people laughin as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you

Delidia
Posts: 367

What is Sauron?

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

*bows infront of Aulë
dont hurt me sire. I grovel at your feet!
*grovelgrovel* see?

lord of llamas
Posts: 16

What is Sauron?

Post#6 » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:36 pm

Wasen't Sauron once a elf?

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

What is Sauron?

Post#7 » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:58 pm

Wasen't Sauron once a elf?

Nope! Refer to Peredhil's post above (its the first one!). That'll answer your question. Sauron is a spirit, a Maia, and he was able to take any form before the Ring was cut from his hand in the Battle of Dagorlad. He could have taken the form of an elf sometime in hid lifetime but essentially he was just a morphing spirit!
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

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Túrin Turambar
Posts: 614

What is Sauron?

Post#8 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:06 am

At the time of LOTR, Sauron still didn't have enough energy from his and Morgoth's last defeat to take a physical form, which leads me to believe that the Eye was not a physical manifestation of Sauron, but merely a seeing tool that he used


Isn't the giant eye just another mickey mouse, gimick PJ added to the movies? I don't remember reading about the eye in the books. Frodo may sometimes refer to feeling as if an great eye was upon him, but it was actually nothing in a physical form.

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

What is Sauron?

Post#9 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:08 am

the Eye was not a physical manifestation of Sauron, but merely a seeing tool that he used, like a Palantir (although he also possessed one of them).

Well, I believe that the Eye is the Palantir and the Palantir is the Eye. The Palantir which the Sauron possessed was obviously used by Sauron to have a free tour of Middle-Earth sitting right there in his home, the Barad-Dur.

So what I think is that the Palantir through which Sauron watched has been symbolised as the Eye. Explains why he only kept "an eye" on the world and not two. He had only one Palantir with him.
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

What is Sauron?

Post#10 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:13 am

Isn't the giant eye just another mickey mouse, gimick PJ added to the movies? I don't remember reading about the eye in the books.

Well, yup. The flaming cat-like eye is how PJ had visualised the spirit of Sauron to be. Tolkien obviously had not wanted us to visualise as if a huge Eye was staring at us out of the top of the Barad-Dur. Just a visual effect!
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

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