Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Findekano
Posts: 73

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Thanks Peredhil :)

And Amarie, thou hast confused me. Findekano/Fingon is a bachelor. No hold does any woman have over him. :P:

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Amarië
Posts: 2785

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Oh what silly things I do. So silly in fact that I deleted the post. Thought Findekano=Finrod in moment of brain-lessness. Sorry! :elfroleeyes:
"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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Elfstone
Posts: 1502

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Interesting post Findekano, I enjoyed reading it! Good job playing detective.
:elfwink:
"I would have the Ring-bearer bring the crown to me, and let Mithrandir set it upon my head, if he will; for he has been the mover of all that has been accomplished, and this is his victory." Elessar

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

See, as I've said elsewhere, there are a few errors or out of date facts in the Silmarillion. which is not to denigrate the book or young Chris. The one responsible for this is Death, who took the Master away before he had time to finished it.

I hope that, just like Niggle, J.R.R.Tolkien found the completed version of his Silmarillion upon his arrival in heaven. That it read just as he had always imagined, filled with all the corrections and updates that he had been unable to add during his lifetime, and which his son missed before the earthly version was published. :angel:
'Share and enjoy'

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Elfstone
Posts: 1502

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

See, as I've said elsewhere, there are a few errors or out of date facts in the Silmarillion. which is not to denigrate the book or young Chris. The one responsible for this is Death, who took the Master away before he had time to finished it.

I hope that, just like Niggle, J.R.R.Tolkien found the completed version of his Silmarillion upon his arrival in heaven. That it read just as he had always imagined, filled with all the corrections and updates that he had been unable to add during his lifetime, and which his son missed before the earthly version was published. :angel:


Well said Grondy, I completely agree! What a nearly impossible task it was for Christopher to pull all of those notes together, and to double check all of the facts, and to try and make sure that everything was in agreement and cohesive.

Here’s a quote from page 289 of ROTK, in the chapter Many Partings where I’ve often thought that J.R.R. was talking about himself, and perhaps sending a postBody to Christopher;
I wonder Frodo my dear fellow, if you would very much mind postThreadIDying things up before you go? Collect all my notes and papers, and my diary too, and take them with you, if you will. You see, I haven’t much time for the selection and arrangement and all that.


but who is to say that before finishing his work he wouldn't go back to what is said in the Silmarillion again?? (he DID change his mind about things quite often really)
So IMHO it's not always what H.O.M.E series says that is the right one.... (i've noticed that you refer to that one a lot Findekano)
To me the Silmarillion is a great book, and until JRR himself tells me he really meant to change all it says i think i will keep on beliveing what it says!
Sorry if this is sounds offending to anyone who's researched HOME-series a lot, it is in no way intended that way it is just my personal opinion!!


I tend to think in this case Findekano is correct, and that probably is the definitive place Tolkien arrived at in regards to that matter after many years of thought, and writing. J.R.R. often said himself that he had a difficult time remembering some of his earlier writing towards the end of his life (who could blame him?), and as he continued developing stories, and family histories, and strove for more consistency and cohesiveness, he would often go back and check his earlier writings and find errors, or earlier ideas that had become outdated. However, I tend to agree with your overall statement on a general level Perwing.
:elf:


"I would have the Ring-bearer bring the crown to me, and let Mithrandir set it upon my head, if he will; for he has been the mover of all that has been accomplished, and this is his victory." Elessar

Findekano
Posts: 73

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Gil-Galad's being Fingon's son was a ephermal idea. It was stated in the Grey annals not in the prose Quenta itself. Tolkien made repeated references to G-il-Galad being either of Orodreth's house (His letter to Tar-Meledur was enititled 'Finnelach Gil-Galad of the House of Finarfin' , but C.T changed it to son of Fingon, because thats what he thought the parentage was, and was confused. Tolkien said on several different occaisions that he was Orodreth's son-or do you choose to belive a old, long discarded idea? Thats fine.

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Elfstone
Posts: 1502

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Tolkien said on several different occaisions that he was Orodreth's son-or do you choose to belive a old, long discarded idea? Thats fine.


Heh Findekano, take a deep breath buddy. If you look at my post, I said that I personally thought you were correct in this matter!

However, I stand by statement that I also agree on a general level with things Perwing said in his post. Specifically what I mean is, [u] there was[/u] a form of The Silmarillion in existence in 1937 that Tolkien submitted to Allen & Unwin for publishing, and they shot it down. Had they published whatever form it was in at that time, most likely he was still set on the idea that Fingon was Gil-Galad’s father in 1937. I’m assuming Tolkien didn’t come to the ultimate conclusion that Orodreth was Gil-Galad’s father until sometime in the last 10 years of his life (I don’t know for sure because I haven’t read HoME yet, so I guess that makes me a total idiot). :dunce:

What I’m getting at is, if Allen & Unwin had published The Simarillion in 1937, or shortly there after, anything that would have been documented in print and published, I feel Tolkien would have stuck with as fact, and any additions, corrections, changes, etc., he might have made after that, he would have worked around, and made them agree with what was published. Again though, I feel that you are correct in this matter, and I appreciate the time you have put in researching, and reading Tolkien’s works. I think you have proved your point conclusively, and as far as I’m concerned Orodreth is the father of Gil-Galad case closed.
:happyelf:
"I would have the Ring-bearer bring the crown to me, and let Mithrandir set it upon my head, if he will; for he has been the mover of all that has been accomplished, and this is his victory." Elessar

Findekano
Posts: 73

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Sorry for the misunderstanding-i was talking to Perwing. Should've made that clearer.

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Elfstone
Posts: 1502

Whose Gil-Galad's daddy?

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

No problem here, besides we're all Tolkien fans anyway! One thing all of your posts have taught me for sure is that HoME is definitely worth reading, and I'm looking forward to that part of my journey. Keep those posts coming; it's good to shake the foundations once in a while!
:elfwink:
"I would have the Ring-bearer bring the crown to me, and let Mithrandir set it upon my head, if he will; for he has been the mover of all that has been accomplished, and this is his victory." Elessar

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