Wots up with Orcs

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Wots up with Orcs

Post#51 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Question here: who's Tioneb, and why don' t I see his/her post anymore?
Has his posts gone?
What about Anilorak? Weren't he and Tioneb two brothers sharing the same PC?

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valedhelgwath
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Wots up with Orcs

Post#52 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Pertorogs! What are they!? where are they mentioned??? I thought I knew the stories inside out but I must have overlooked this part!
To tell you the truth, Cirdan, I've been searching LOTR, Silmarillion and UT for some mention of them, but so far have come up a blank.
I used to play a lot of Middle Earth Roleplaying, which is obviously based around Tolkien's world, and being rather nasty, Pertorogs are something we often came across. :(
As a game aid I used to use a three volume set of books called Lords of Middle Earth which basically lists all the characters mentioned in the books, gives a detailed account of their history and then gives them a set of statistics for use in the game. Obviously these books were not written by Tolkien, but they do seem to have been very well researched and most of the details given does seem to check out okay. In Vol 3, which concerns itself with dwarves, hobbits, ents, orcs and trolls it mentions the Pertorogs and gives a quotation. As I cannot find this quotation in the books mentioned above, maybe it is included in one of the other works. As I have never read these, I cannot be of any help. Over to Grondy or Plastic for guidence. :)

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grondmaster
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Wots up with Orcs

Post#53 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Pertorogs: I know nothing about them. Were they spelled different, I could imagine them as hardrock ogres. But that is only making something up, what is their description?
'Share and enjoy'

Cirdan
Posts: 163

Wots up with Orcs

Post#54 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I've been having a look and cant find Pertorog yet :( but! I found a reference to Torog's

"The Sindarin word that Tolkien normally renders as 'troll' in his works. The derivation of this word is uncertain - it perhaps imitates olog, which seems to be the comparative term in the Black Speech."

i guess i may need to start reading again!

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Allyssa
Posts: 1657

Wots up with Orcs

Post#55 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Per = half, as in Per-edhel = half-elf

PerTorogs must be "half troll". Cant find any references in Robert Fosters Guide or the Letters, unless per-torog = olog-hai, which is unclear.nn[Edited on 6/7/2002 by Allyssa]
"May the Angels Guide"

Cirdan
Posts: 163

Wots up with Orcs

Post#56 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

it all makes sense now! But where are they in the books???!!!

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PlasticSquirrel
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Wots up with Orcs

Post#57 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

As far as I know they're not. I've never heard of them anyway, and can find no mention of them in any of my books (yeah right, like I even looked) I assume they have just been invented for the purposes of the thing we were talking about.
http://www.plasticsquirrel.co.uk for all your bizarre music and musings needs

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Wots up with Orcs

Post#58 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Also, perian, periannath, pheriannath = halfling = holbytla = hobbit are other examples where per = half.

Based on Allyssa's and Cirdan's findings, I now believe that the 'Olog-hai' in the Black Speech is the equivalent to 'Pertorog' in the Sindarin.
Troll has been used to translate the Sindarin Torog. ... But at the end of the Third Age a troll-race not before seen appeared in southern Mirkwood and in the mountain borders of Mordor. Olog-hai they were called in the Black Speech. That Sauron bred them none doubted, though from what stock was no known. Some held that they were not trolls but giant Orcs; but the Olog-hai were in fashion of body and mind quite unlike even the largest of Orc-kind, whom they far surpassed in size and power. Trolls they were, but filled with evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone. Unlike the older race of the Twilight they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them. - From ROTK, Appendix F, under Trolls
I think this was the type of Troll that Pippin and Beregond faced at the end of Book V. :cool:
nn[Edited on 8/7/2002 by Grondmaster]
'Share and enjoy'

Cirdan
Posts: 163

Wots up with Orcs

Post#59 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Cheers Grondy! Have to buy you a pint down the ol' fersaken for that! Wonder if its alowed to have an orc (or even Pertorog) in Arwen Evenstars new roleplay? I think someone speculated earlier as to whether any orcs could be born good....like a throwback to the time they were Elves....cant remember who came up with that idea and to lazy to check....but could make for an interesting rpg character ne? certainly have a lot of issues (bit like Drizzt Do-Urden.....always liked that character!)

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Allyssa
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Wots up with Orcs

Post#60 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think it may well have been me Cirdan. ;) Yes, I am a big Salvatore fan from way back. :cyclops: :cat: :disturbed: :flamejump: :superscared:

Could there be an orcish Drizzit wandering ME in lonely melancholy? Will he be taken to the Halls of Mandos when he dies of grief?

Note: Drizzt Do'Urden was a dark elf, who for some reason had a heart that was not turned to evil, unlike his fellow dark elves. He forsook his race and forged a new life (with great hardship) among the "good" races of his world.nn[Edited on 19/7/2002 by Allyssa]
"May the Angels Guide"

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