Isildur

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Isildur

Post#1 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:55 am

Isildur deserves a thread of his own and as I can't find one anywhere I shall start it right here, right now.

Never mind the Last Alliance and the ring and stuff....... there is more interesting stuff to deal with first. For instance, Isildur lived in Numenor, he was one of The Faithful and what a terrible time they must have had. Sauron, once he had taken control, demanded human sacrifices to Melkor and who did they sacrifice - members of The Faithful!

There after the fire and smoke went up with out ceasing; for the power of Sauron daily increased, and in that temple, with spilling of blood and torment and great wickedness, men made sacrifice to Melkor that he should release them from Death. And most often from among the Faithful they chose their victims; yet never openly on the charge that they would not worship Melkor...


And they sailed now with power and armoury to Middle-earth, and they came no longer as bringers of gifts, nor even as rulers, but as fierce men of war. And they hunted the men of Middle-earth nd took their goods and enslaved them, and many they slew cruelly upon their altars.


From The Silmarillion : Akallabeth

Isildur saved fruit from Nimloth so that the White Tree could be preserved and he sailed with The Faithful away from Numenor before the terrible wrath of the Valar destroyed it.

What a life this guy had and all this before the Last Alliance and the Ring.

The flight from Numenor and its destruction reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?).

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Vee
Posts: 2711

Isildur

Post#2 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:09 am

The reason for me thinking more S&G than Atlantis is the very biblical nature of Tolkien's writing and the fact that people did escape from S&G AND they were destroyed because of their evilness and sinfulness just like Numenoreans.

Your essay - great but please don't quote it in its entirety in one go because that could inhibit discussion...... use it wisely. Looking forward to it. Bit by bit....

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virumor
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Isildur

Post#3 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:09 am

Reminds me more of Atlantis. It weren't just two cities who were destroyed, but an entire continent.

Isildur saved fruit from Nimloth so that the White Tree could be preserved and he sailed with The Faithful away from Numenor before the terrible wrath of the Valar destroyed it.

Sure he didn't just take a branch of it?

I recently wrote an essay on Isildur during a rainy Sunday, four pages long, perhaps elements of it would fit into this thread, although it is very long. But... that essay is solely about Isildur and the Ring.

Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Vee
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Isildur

Post#4 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:27 am

Sure he didn't just take a branch of it?


...Isildur passed through the guards and took from the Tree a fruit that hung upon it, and turned to go........ isildur came at last hardly back to Romenna and delivered the fruit to the hands of Amandil, ere his strength failed him. Then the fruit was planted in secret..... and s hoot arose from it and sprouted in the spring.


He stole a fruit.

....but in the ship of Isildur was guarded the young tree, the scion of Nimloth the Fair.


And sailed away with a tree.



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valedhelgwath
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Isildur

Post#5 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:37 pm

I do not want to turn this discussion into one about the films etc, because we have been there, but I find it rather ironic how PJ on several occasions has Aragorn comparing himself with Isildur, and fearing that he shares the same weaknesses. Although Aragorn was a direct descendant of Isildur, I actually see more of a similarity between Isildur and Boromir. The reason for this similarity is of course obviously the Ring.

Both Isildur and Boromir were heroic figures. Both achieved much against overwhelming odds. Isildur saved a fruit of the White Tree; Boromir recaptured Osgilliath after it had been sacked. As "Princes/Stewards" of Gondor, both were loved and respected by their people and their troops. Both, however, have the unfortunate distinction of being men who will be remembered best for succumbing to the power of the Ring. Neither turned evil, but it did cause both to make decisions they should not have made. Isildur refused to destroy it, a decision which later resulted in his death. Boromir attempted to take it from Frodo and a few minutes later died defending Merry and Pippin.

The real tragedy of both of these characters is how their encounter with the Ring clouds how they should have been remembered.

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virumor
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Isildur

Post#6 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:56 pm

Vee posted :

"Quote:
...Isildur passed through the guards and took from the Tree a fruit that hung upon it, and turned to go........ isildur came at last hardly back to Romenna and delivered the fruit to the hands of Amandil, ere his strength failed him. Then the fruit was planted in secret..... and s hoot arose from it and sprouted in the spring.


He stole a fruit.


Quote:
....but in the ship of Isildur was guarded the young tree, the scion of Nimloth the Fair.


And sailed away with a tree."

From what books come this quotes? Don't say it's from HOME, pls. I believe in Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion, he took a branch... anyway i've never heard of Romenna before in UT nor Sil... i can't give you those quotes or investigate it as my essay is lost somewhere right now. More later, hopefully.

There could be differences between HOME, UT and the Sil, and there indeed are some, for instance the way Isildur dies... in UT he reaches the other shore and gets arrowed down, whilst in the Sil he gets shot whilst "labouring" in the stream.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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Vee
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Isildur

Post#7 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:16 pm

Vir asked:
From what books come this quotes?




Sorry, I should have made that clear - The Silmarillion - Akallabeth

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Isildur

Post#8 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:10 pm

... And Sauron urged the King to cut down the White Tree, Nimloth the Fair, that grew in his courts, for it was a memorial of the Eldar and of the light of Valinor.

At first the King would not assent to this, since he believed that the fortunes of his house were tied up with the Tree, ... when Amandil heard the rumour of this ... he spoke to Elendil and the sons of Elendil, recalling the tale of the Trees of Valinor; and Isildur said no word, but went out by night and ... he passed alone in disguise to Armenlos and to the courts of the King, which were now forbidden to the Faithful; and he came to the place of the Tree, which was forbidden by the orders of Sauron, and the Tree was watched day and night by the guards in his service.

At that time Nimloth was dark and bore no bloom, for it was late in autumn, and winter was nigh; and Isildur passed through the guards and took from the Tree a fruit that hung upon it, and turned to go. But the guard was aroused, and he was assailed, and fought his way out, receiving many wounds; and he escaped, and because he was disguised it was not discovered who had laid hands on the Tree. But Isildur came at last hardly back to Romenna and delivered the fruit to the hands of Amandil, ere his strength failed him. Then the fruit was planted in secret, and it was blessed by Amandil; and a shoot arose from it and sprouted in the spring. But when the first leaf opened then Isildur, who had lain long and come near to death, arose and was troubled no more by his wounds.

None too soon was this done; for after the assault the King yielded to Sauron and felled the White Tree, and turned then wholly away from the allegiance of his fathers. - from about half way into the AKALLABETH in The Silmarillion.
You can understand Aragorn's joy at finding a sapling from this same tree planted high on the mountain side. Aragorn's sapling symbolically, as well literally, tied his realm back to Numenor and his fore fathers. 'The sign has been given, ...' - You can read this part at the end of 'The Steward and the King' in RotK.
'Share and enjoy'

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Vee
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Isildur

Post#9 » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:15 am

The Tree of Nimloth was very important to Isildur and his people otherwise he wouldn't have risked his life to preserve it.

Why was it so important?

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Isildur

Post#10 » Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:40 am

It was the tree who descended from Celeborn (not Galadriel's husband, heh), who descended from Galathilion, who descended from Telperion, the very first tree, one of the Two Trees. A gift from the Eldar and a very important symbol for them, it showed their connection with the Eldar and reminded them of great deeds of the past, perhaps.

It was also a symbol of the isle of Numenor and the reign of the Kings... remember later on in Gondor the Tree looked a bit sad after the last King of Gondor perished. Luckily, Aragorn later on found a new sibling on the flanks of Mindolluin.

At that time Nimloth was dark and bore no bloom

It bore no Bloom... that's a very lucky tree!
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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