Gimli

musicimprovedme
Posts: 240

Gimli

Post#101 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Gimli was a fighter and a great help in fostering good ties with the elves


I can be so stupid sometimes...I wasn't listening obviously.

Are you trying to say, everyone, that Gimli was pretty much along for the ride to "be himself" and prove himself to all of us, both readers and others in the story??

I think I see where it would have been worthwhile for Gimli to be on the mission if he forever changed the elves' minds about dwarves...in that way Tolkien may have set the groundwork for telling us how different things will be when this whole Ring thing is over with.

I AM WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT GIMLI IS IMPORTANT TO THE STORY, I HAVE JUST BEEN LOOKING FOR EXAMPLES OF HOW! THANKS FOR HELPING ME FIND SOME!

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Allyssa
Posts: 1657

Gimli

Post#102 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think I see where it would have been worthwhile for Gimli to be on the mission if he forever changed the elves' minds about dwarves


I don't know if Gimli changed all of the elves minds about all dwarves, but he certainly made a beginning. He certainly made an impression on some very powerful people - Galadriel, Celeborn and probably Elrond, who chose him for the mission in the hopes that he and Legolas might forge some kind of truce. And of course, Legolas himself was the son of Thranduil of Mirkwood. Gimli's friendship with the prince may have begun to mend some bridges there.
"May the Angels Guide"

Dain_II
Posts: 28

Gimli

Post#103 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I see what you are saying, but how far are you in the book? See, in the book, I feel Legolas and Gimli are on about the same level as members of the fellowship (the hobbits are the heros, for Tolkien, Merry and Pippin have much bigger roles to come than what they got in TT while Aragorn is THE KING and greatest man on earth, while Gandalf is, well, Gandalf). That is why I think they end up such good friends, as they are the two supporting members in a way. Now, in the movies, Legolas is made uber-cool, as everyone has been noting, while Gimli is made into comic relief. That's a bit unfair, I think. Legolas has a wide range of skills, because he's an elf, that he can use more often than Gimli can apply his dwarf skills (the fellowship never needs to forge weapons, armor or construct anything out of stone, wheras far-seeing eyes are always usefull in the open plains of Rohan). I know that Moria may be seen as "his turf" but he had never been there, and in fact dwarves hadn't been back there in hundreds of years, apart from Balin's expedition which they didn't have much contact with (didn't even know they were all dead!). I thought that, though I don't remember exactly, in the books he takes a more active role leading them through the caves, while Aragorn and Legolas are mostly silent. Gandalf is, of course, in charge, because he's been through before.

We mustn't overlook, however, his value to the fellowship as a plain and simple warrior. He's probably the second best fighter in there, at close range. Aragorn is, of course, matchless, but Legolas, in the books, is very arrow-dependent, and not quite the knife-wielding badass of the films. You'll see when you get to the competition part--it is in the books! Also, he saves Eomer's life at Helm's deep (not a big spoiler--though in the movies, Eomer isn't even at the battle... :shakehead: ). And, looking just at the films, Gimli does save Aragorn in the battle at the end of Fellowship (as does Legolas, I think). In the two towers film, even his fighting has to be comic, though, as he gets trapped under two wargs in the first battle...

Anyway, I think the point raised about Gimli as helping dwarf-elf relations is a good one. Basically, though, I feel that he and Legolas are there to do the fighting and support Aragorn and the hobbits in their quest, which they do admirably, and the quest couldn't have been completed without two such fighters. Does Legolas not deserve the "why is he there" question simply because he can see or miles, shoot a bow and help Aragorn with the tracking a little? If so, then Gimli is there because he can wield an axe and protect and serve his companions and represent the dwarves in the quest to save the world.

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Gimli

Post#104 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

:verysad: To all who read this post yesterday:

What I wrote here yesterday was inconsiderate and even though I said it was not to taken as personal, it was. For this I am sorry and even though I know those words can't be put back into the bottle, I wish I had never said them. :verysad:

Please forgive me and continue on your journey for knowledge in fellowship here at Planet-Tolkien.com.

Grondynn[Edited on 10/2/2003 by Grondmaster]
'Share and enjoy'

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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

Gimli

Post#105 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

And don't forget, Gimli's Dwarfish knowledge of stone working came in pretty darn handy at Helm's Deep AND Minas Tirith.
http://www.plasticsquirrel.co.uk for all your bizarre music and musings needs

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Gimli

Post#106 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think Gimli's inclusion at the start was so that all of the Free Peoples would be represented in the Fellowship. This in itself was a very important point.

Okay, apart from his stout fighting, Gimli did very little that was unique to just himself. He did singlehandedly, however, mend a rift that had existed between Elves and Dwarves that had stretched right back to the First Age. Back then the Dwarves of Nogrod had slain King Thingol (a relation of Celeborn) through greed over a silmaril. That act had never been forgiven by Celeborn until Gimli entered Lothlorien.

Further, grievances between the Dwarves and the Elves of Lothlorien had occurred when the Dwarves dug too deep and freed the Balrog from its prison. This act had indirectly cost Lothlorien their king (Amroth).

Gimli's great act, therefore, was simply to show Galadriel and Celeborn that as individuals Dwarves were not all bad, and thus gained forgiveness for his people. I believe it was for this act that he, alone of all the Dwarves, was granted permission to live out his final days in the Undying Lands.

musicimprovedme
Posts: 240

Gimli

Post#107 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

So I guess that PR is pretty important, I hadn't really thought of it that way before. And yes, Gimli is a very good fighter, perhaps I haven't gotten to the parts where he really stands out.

Thanks for the insight!

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Gimli

Post#108 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Please see my new words in the post above. Thank you.
'Share and enjoy'

musicimprovedme
Posts: 240

Gimli

Post#109 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

OH BOY. I got to the part where Gimli pulls his weight. He really kicked some butt in the battle at Helm's Deep, in a VERY DWARFY way...whoa. NO MORE questions about Gimli from me.

**HUGS grondy in renewed fellowship**nn[Edited on 11/2/2003 by musicimprovedme]

Dain_II
Posts: 28

Gimli

Post#110 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

:D Yup, s'right. ;)

Here's a Gimli question: Why Gimli? What was so special about Gimli, Gloin's son, that made him the one to join the fellowship? I mean, why does Tolkien take Gloin's son along, and not Dain's, or Balin's or Dwalin's, or even Dori's? For example, Legolas is Thranduil's son (which I only realized when I heard it in the film), which makes him Prince of Mirkwood, basically. Gloin, however, while of Durin's line (2nd cousin of Balin, Dwalin) is not particularly special, and many other dwarves from the Hobbit play a bigger role. Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts...nn[Edited on 11/2/2003 by Dain_II]

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