Aragorn and Faramir

mouse
Posts: 9

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#1 » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:31 pm

Hi all,

I'd like an opinion on these two characters in interaction, but feel I first have to briefly outline the history of this issue as related to me.

A couple of weeks (or even months?) ago, I got involved into a discussion triggered by a post at one of the forums. The author happened to be a quite militant Aragorn fan who plainly said that Aragorn became King because he was TEH COOLEST GUY EVAH, and Faramir could never have hoped to equal him. I will not give this person's reasoning here; I consider it all very much influenced by personal preferences to be objective.

So, one of the questions is: how are these two related in terms of personal worth? What constitutes personal worth in this case? And, finally, what exactly is a non-ruling Steward's function at the side of a perfect King? Or maybe it's in the shadow of the King, not at his side? Nodding at appropriate intervals? *shudders* Because, if the King has an ability to see ten moves ahead, does he really need anyone who would not be quite as good at it?

I want to make one thing clear: it isn't a "who's better?" question. Personally, I am convinced that there are a lot of differences between these two characters (in addition to similarities), and they make a valid comparison quite impossible...but I'd rather hear what you think first. So?..

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miruvor
Posts: 849

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#2 » Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:40 pm

What constitutes personal worth in this case? And, finally, what exactly is a non-ruling Steward's function at the side of a perfect King? Or maybe it's in the shadow of the King, not at his side? Nodding at appropriate intervals?

To answer your questions, JRRT wrote the following in a comment concerning Faramir & Éowyn, ca. 1963 :

Also to be Prince of Ithilien, the greatest noble after Dol Amroth in the revived Númenórean state of Gondor, soon to be of imperial power and prestige, was not a 'market-garden job' as you term it. Until much had been done by the restored King, the P. of Ithilien would be the resident march-warden of Gondor, in its main eastward outpost – and also would have many duties in rehabilitating the lost territory, and clearing it of outlaws and orc-remnants, not to speak of the dreadful vale of Minas Ithil (Morgul).
I did not, naturally, go into details about the way in which Aragorn, as King of Gondor, would govern the realm. But it was made clear that there was much fighting, and in the earlier years of A.'s reign expeditions against enemies in the East. The chief commanders, under the King, would be Faramir and Imrahil; and one of these would normally remain a military commander at home in the King's absence.
A Númenórean King was monarch, with the power of unquestioned decision in debate; but he governed the realm with the frame of ancient law, of which he was administrator (and interpreter) but not the maker. In all debatable matters of importance domestic, or external, however, even Denethor had a Council, and at least listened to what the Lords of the Fiefs and the Captains of the Forces had to say. Aragorn re-established the Great Council of Gondor, and in that Faramir, who remained by inheritance the Steward (or representative of the King during his absence abroad, or sickness, or between his death and the accession of his heir) would [be] the chief counsellor.

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#3 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:50 am

True. A single person can't think of everything whether he be a President or a King and even if he does, its not possible that his ideas will be the best. A Steward acts as a second brain to the King. He advices the King on certain matters and lets the King know if there is a better solution to the problem at hand. And yeah, a steward was also the representative of the seat of the King during his absences. And Faramir was also the Ruler of Ithilien so the restoration and renovation of that part of Gondor was his responsibility hence taking the load off Aragorn's shoulder.
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

mouse
Posts: 9

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#4 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:38 am

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. I also like the idea that these two would complement each other perfectly: Aragorn as a man of Action, and Faramir a man of Thought.

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cloveress
Posts: 2289

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#5 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:51 am

I like what you say about the two complementing each other. Becuase that's exactly what they do! Aragorn and Faramir are both wise men, and I think they would think in a similar way too. Only Aragorn, who is born with a burden of Kingship, would probably be the one more caught in action, whereas Faramir would be a guy who has more space and time to think, it deosn't mean he doesn't do anything though, he does do things, just not as much, becuase his position does not require it. Aragorn might not really be a war-mongering guy, really, I think he'd be just like Faramir at heart (in the perspective of war). The two are just two same souls coated with different births and titles to me.

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miruvor
Posts: 849

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#6 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:55 pm

Well, in the first years of Elessar's reign, i'm sure there was plenty of action for Faramir in Ithiliën. As JRRT wrote above, there were still some Orcses, Easterlings and other former thralls of Sauron's, to be slaughtered.

Meanwhilst, Elessar and Éomer seemed to have action going on on the far fields of Rhûn and Harad, according to the LOTR appendices.

It's logical that in the King's absence, the King needs to be replaced. The replacements logically were Prince Imrahil (the King's replacement) and Faramir (the King's chief counsellor).

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#7 » Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:48 am

The replacements logically were Prince Imrahil (the King's replacement) and Faramir (the King's chief counsellor)

I disagree with you there. The Role of a Steward is to hold the seat of the King during his absence. He manages the affairs of the Kingdom in the King's name. Therefore Faramir wold have been the King's replacement and as for Prince Imrahil, he would have been the King's military advisor and also the commander-general of the armies of Gondor.
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

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miruvor
Posts: 849

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#8 » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:29 am

The Role of a Steward is to hold the seat of the King during his absence.

Strange though, that Queen Evenstar wasn't apparently deemed fit for such a task.

Either she wasn't allowed to take part in state affairs, or either Elessar took his spouse with him on his bloody travels in the East of Middle-earth.

I have a feeling though, that Éowyn would've liked that, that her husband held the seat of the King, even though she supposedly no longer desired to be a Queen. Hah.

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lord_aragorn86
Posts: 2241

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#9 » Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:26 am

or either Elessar took his spouse with him on his bloody travels in the East of Middle-earth.

Sure, behind the success of every man is a she-elf!
I am nobody.....and nobody is perfect.......therefore I am perfect.

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miruvor
Posts: 849

Aragorn and Faramir

Post#10 » Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:32 pm

Sure, behind the success of every man is a she-elf!

Yes, and in case of Legolas : a legion of she-elves.

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