Worshiping the Valar?

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Sian
Posts: 1300

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#1 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:38 pm

I'm not sure this thread is in the right place, please feel free to move it if necessary!

I'm also not quite sure how to phrase this question/thought: It occurred to me that in the Silmarillion some of the creation story parallels Christianity. Tolkien was also deeply religious. However one element that I don't see - unless I've missed something - is that of worship: no churches, temples, altars. The races of Middle Earth (or most of them) seem to have a healthy respect and high regard for the Valar but it dosen't sound like worship to me. What does everyone else think?

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turion
Posts: 104

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#2 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:02 pm

i always saw (with the elvesat least) nthat their relationship was kinda symbiotic....

the elves valued and loved the valar, they ave them hope

the valar adored the elves and living things of middle earth

both would be lost without the other i think??

ohh i dunno, far to deep for this time of night!! (3.00 AM)

:D
xxx

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Thorin Oakenshield
Posts: 4593

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#3 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:39 pm

Elves don't worship the Valar because the Valar considers themselves as 'their elders' and not their masters. It is mentioned somewhere in the sil. As for men they worship everything except the valar, maybge numenor was an exception where the mariners called to uinen when osse got rought but i don't know if it was prayers.
The Old that is Strong does not Wither.

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Lord Of All
Posts: 633

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#4 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:39 am

The only worshiping place I can think of devoted to Iluvatar is Meneltarma. In Tolkien's myth it is apparent that the Valar are to be respected but not worshiped. It is also apparent that the people of Arda, although they know of Iluvatar, see of him as an observer of Arda, rather as a ruler, thus worshiping him would be unprofitable.
It is also wise to not take too much of the Bible and christianity too seriously in Tolkien's myth. They are very different.

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Tinúviel
Posts: 510

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#5 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:41 am

Though you could (in a small way) compare the Valar to angels and so, in accordance to Christianity, angels are not to be worshipped. Even though Tolkien drew from many sources & mythologies, the Christian influence is definately apparent in places.

I remember somewhere that he wrote that the Elves looked to the West (in respect of the Valar) but unfortunately I don't remember much more about it - maybe someone else can fill in the blanks.

There are also cases where men from the East were forced through fear into worshipping the dark lord... but apart from that there isn't much worshipping in Tolkien's world. I think the reason for that is because he wanted to avoid any kind of religious debate or proclaimed allegories as a result of his works - in this way he made it something that anyone can relate to, no matter what their background/religion.

Genius :genius:

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Thorin Oakenshield
Posts: 4593

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#6 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:46 am

I remember somewhere that he wrote that the Elves looked to the West (in respect of the Valar) but unfortunately I don't remember much more about it - maybe someone else can fill in the blanks.


I think that it was Faramir and his band of Rangers who looked to the west as seen in the TTT and the chapter is probably 'The Window on the West'.

Before they ate, Faramir and all his men turned and faced west in a moment of silence.
..."So we always do," he said as they sat down: "we look towards Numenor that was, and beyond to Elvenhome that is and ever will be"
The Old that is Strong does not Wither.

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Tinúviel
Posts: 510

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#7 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:01 am

Ooooooh right, that's where it was - I knew someone looked West. :mad2:

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Thorin Oakenshield
Posts: 4593

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#8 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:04 am

Yeah even now i'm looking to the west....:dunce:
The Old that is Strong does not Wither.

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Lord Of All
Posts: 633

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#9 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:57 am

The looked into the West in Memory of Numenore, Westernesse, The Downfallen, not the Blessed Land.
Indeed the Valar are seen by many as Angels but I cannot see how. Angels are simply messengers from God who govern's the World, whilst the Valar themselves are the ones who govern the World. They are more like the Greek Gods save that they work in unison with eachother rather than strife.

Only the Eagles and Istari I can see as Angels.

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virumor
Posts: 3567

Worshiping the Valar?

Post#10 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:06 pm

The looked into the West in Memory of Numenore, Westernesse, The Downfallen, not the Blessed Land.


Thorin posted :
I think that it was Faramir and his band of Rangers who looked to the west as seen in the TTT and the chapter is probably 'The Window on the West'.


Quote:
Before they ate, Faramir and all his men turned and faced west in a moment of silence.
..."So we always do," he said as they sat down: "we look towards Numenor that was, and beyond to Elvenhome that is and ever will be"
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

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