Elves vs Men

curufinwe
Posts: 305

Elves vs Men

Post#1 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:18 pm

While reading Tolkien, I get the general sense that men are better fighters than elves, at least in general. I am sure there is a definite quote that will prove this, but I am to lazy to find it right now. However, that's not what this thread is about. If men are better fighters than elves, than the best fighter from the ranks of men should be better than his elven counterpart. Húrin is the most valiant man, but I feel like if he had to do what Ecthelion, Glorfindel or Gandalf did and slay a Balrog I don't think he would be successful. Does this mean that the elves are weaker in general but their heroes are insanely strong? How do you think Húrin would do against Ecthelion? Feanor? I Have been wondering about this for a while, but how do the heroes of men and the heroes of elves compare? Thanks.

Amras
Posts: 451

Elves vs Men

Post#2 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:38 pm


Well Curufinwe,v you are partly right. For the Noldor or Doriath would be stronger than your normal Man army. The Gondorians would be better fighters vs the Mirkwood elves(not in the movies) because of their hardiness and background. Fingolfin could wound a Vala but i do not think Hurin could touch part of his mace in defense. The Vanyar led by Ingwe could easly overpower ghan ghan buri even if he was overwhelmed 100 to 1. so therefore friend i think that it would be what race sqaured off against eachother.



glorfindel
Posts: 285

Elves vs Men

Post#3 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:56 pm

If it's about the average Men vs Elves, we still have to take a lot into consideration. Let's take away the elves' "special" abilities, fast healing and stamina. This would be easier. Then we must break it down to the particular groups. Then let's just consider the inhabitants of middle earth, anytime after the return of the Nolder. For instance, the Nolder born in Aman would be at the top. The Numernarians would be second or tie with the Sindar and middle earth born Nolder. Next would be the Dunedain or the Silvan elves.

belegorn
Posts: 16

Elves vs Men

Post#4 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:32 pm


There are different kinds of Men. If we're talking about Men in the First Age, the Edain for instance, some of them really stand out, from royal lines. However, generally Elves are hardier, stronger, and it takes more to kill them. It gets even harder to kill them as their spirits consume their bodies and they in a real sense become deathless. I believe that Elves can be every bit the warriors as men and that Men can best Elves and vice-versa.



Could someone like Hurin take on someone like Fingolfin? It seems like he probably would not be able to, but he might be able to. Although when I think about how Finrod had to be the one to fight the wolves and Sauron to spare Beren it makes me wonder that maybe there are in fact some Elves who're simply out of the league of ordinary and even extraordinary men like Turin and Tuor and Hurin and his brother.



The High Men, who're kin to the Edain, seem on another level themselvs and these seem like they would have more of a chance against such powers as Finrod. Even deep into the 3rd Age there were High Men who were diminished who Sauron's greatest servants feared, like Boromir the Steward.



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Gror_Falkbeard
Posts: 58

Elves vs Men

Post#5 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:53 am


I get the impression that men are the strongest fighters between dwarfs, elves, orcs? Dispute if you thought something different.


"Build me a son, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak, and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid, one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory."

curufinwe
Posts: 305

Elves vs Men

Post#6 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:20 am


I don't want to bring dwarves into this. Aule made them for war, this is between elves and men. About those quotes...




The Silmarillion, Chapter 12: Of Men



Of Men little is told in these tales, which concern the Eldest Days before the waxing of mortals and the waning of the Elves...



In those days Elves and Men were of like stature and strength of body, but the Elves had greater wisdom, and skill, and beauty...



Their (Elves) bodies indeed were of the stuff of Earth, and could be destroyed; and in those days they were more like to the bodies of men, since they had not so long been inhabited by the fire of their spirit, which consumes them from within in the courses of time. But Men were more frail, more easily slain by weapons or mischance, and less easily healed...




The elves were better fighters in the first age. But, men did not come to their full might until the days of Numenor.




Therefore they (Numorians) grew wise and glorious, and in all things more like to the Firstborn than any other of the kindreds of Men; and they were tall, taller than the tallest of the sons of Middle-earth; and the light of their eyes was like the bright stars.




That shows that men in the first age had not yet achieved their zenith. So while men in the first age were valiant indeed, I think that if Numenor had been presented a foe such as Morgoth even greater heroes would have arisen. Perhaps they would have even have had a chance to defeat Morgoth in battle?



Amras
Posts: 451

Elves vs Men

Post#7 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:38 pm


Wow Galin! I must really say that  your Posts are really pieces of art!! You worded that perfectly. As you were saying That men peaked at the noontide of Numenor, and still maybe fell to a lesser degree of strength by the ending of the long Third age. Numenoreans fell apart during the swift waning of the Years of the Sun and only many almost pure blooded men had faded, except for Aragorn, Faramir, and Maybe Imrahil, Denethor, and the Rangers of the North.



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galin
Posts: 1369

Elves vs Men

Post#8 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:43 pm


Hmm. I haven't posted in this thread... well, until this post 



curufinwe
Posts: 305

Elves vs Men

Post#9 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:39 pm


So you agree with me that the Numorians could have been the worlds best fighters?



Amras
Posts: 451

Elves vs Men

Post#10 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:16 pm


of the children of eru a Bronze medal after the Vanyar and the Noldo.



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