Who is the most valiant man?

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#1 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

In the Third Age I would say that Aragorn was the most valient, dedicating his whole life to fighting evil, when he lived in a time when he could have perhaps left the struggle in the hands of someone else.

Prior to the Third Age, I would say many great deeds were committed during the dark days of the First Age. Although much went wrong for him, due mainly to Morgoth's curse, I believe that Turin was the most valient. Either fighting with elven allies in Doriath and Nargothrond, or as a bandit from Amon Rudh, he dedicated his life to fighting Morgoth. He led a disasterous life because of various curses, but never gave up in his quest against impossible odds. And he slew Glaurung, the greatest dragon.

In fact, forget Aragorn. Turin wins hands down (with perhaps Beren a close second)

Eryan
Posts: 845

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#2 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

For me, Turin!!!
And I think that JRRT thought the same, because in the History of ME Vol. 5 you may find a prophecy of Mandos telling, among others, that in the final Last Battle of Good nad Evil Morgoth will be slain by Turin. So even after his death he was supposed to remain a valiant avenger.
Just close to him, I'd name Hurin his father.
Beren was valiant by need (during the period when he was an outlaw) but he was essentially a peace-loving man. His life with Luthien was very peaceful and quiet almost to the end, when he had to go to war once more to avenge Thingol killed by Dwarves. Durng the same period when Turin was fighting desperately with the forces of evil in every possible way, Beren just lived quietly with Luthien on his enchanted isle, among the Elves...

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valedhelgwath
Posts: 4233

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#3 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

And I think that JRRT thought the same, because in the History of ME Vol. 5 you may find a prophecy of Mandos telling, among others, that in the final Last Battle of Good nad Evil Morgoth will be slain by Turin. So even after his death he was supposed to remain a valiant avenger.
I must get those books if they contain such gems as that one. It'll just be a case of finding time to read them.

And the more I think about it, the higher in my esteem Turin rates. Because his life was masked by so much bad luck brought on by Morgth's and Glaurung's curses, many of his great deeds became clouded in other tragic tales, darkening his history. Poor Turin. He tried so hard but was up against a beating for nothing.

Can you imagine what a force he and his cousin Tuor would have made if they had fought side by side.

Eryan
Posts: 845

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#4 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Also when we compare the motivation underlying the actions of Turin and Beren, Turin seems to win. During all his life Turin was fighting to keep foces of evil at bay, doing his best to overcome his ill luck. Beren & Luthien did a very daring thing when they took Silmaril from the Iron Crown of Morgoth, but this was done for quite selfish reason: Beren desired to wed Luthien with the consent of her father. And Luthien was wholly willing to live with Beren without the consent of Thingol! If Beren would have been sensible enough, he should accept that, part with her far away from Doriath and focus his efforts rather on fighting Orcs/helping Men of the Three Kindreds. He would not have lost his right hand, and Finrod Felagund and his faithful companions would not have been killed by Sauron's werewolf...

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#5 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

:orcthumbs: I'm backing Túrin because he was butting his head against a wall that he couldn't break down, but even knowing this he still kept picking himself up and trying again.
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PlasticSquirrel
Posts: 3577

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#6 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

:orcthumbs: I'm backing Túrin because he was butting his head against a wall that he couldn't break down, but even knowing this he still kept picking himself up and trying again.

Is that valiant? Or just not knowing when you're beat? ;)
http://www.plasticsquirrel.co.uk for all your bizarre music and musings needs

Eryan
Posts: 845

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#7 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

If Turin would "know that he is beaten" after one of his defeats, he would not go and kill Glaurung. And Glaurung would certainly kill many Elves and Men and do much mischief. Sometimes people (and animals) assume that they are beaten too soon - this is known as "learned helplessness"...

Samwisegamgee
Posts: 607

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#8 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think that depends on what you mean by valiant. In terms of which man was bravest, I would say Beren because even if he had a selfish reason, he was still very brave. Aside from that I would say Aragorn, Boromir, or Faramir.

Eryan
Posts: 845

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#9 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Let us not forget Eorl the Young as well!

Cirdan
Posts: 163

Who is the most valiant man?

Post#10 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Nor Tar Aldarion, Earendil, Theoden, Helm, Bard,plus last king of Gondor (the one that went up against the witch king, one on one in his own fortress) all very valiant!!! but I think Turin must go number 1. Beren very close second, I mean he did go into Morgoths realm and steal a silmaril from his crown after all!

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