Eowyn

Eryan
Posts: 845

Eowyn

Post#51 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I think that Tolkien really made it clear in LOTR that Eowyn's personality
underwent a profound transformation during her stay in the Houses of Healing.
And it was friendliness and understanding of Faramir which was largely responsable
for that effect, not her falling in love with him. The first signs of her becoming a different
person can be seen already duringt her very first conversation with Faramir,
when she was still deeply in love in Aragorn.
as he looked at her it seemed
to him that something in her softened, as though a bitter frost were yielding at the
first faint presage of Spring. A tear sprang in her eye and fell down her cheek,
like a glistening rain-drop. Her proud head dropped a little. Then quietly, more
as if speaking to herself than to him: "But the healers would have me lie abed seven
days yet" she said "And my window does not look eastward". Her voice was now
that of a maiden young and sad"

Yes this is the same person that killed the Witch King!
I think that Tolkien stressed that her Amazon personality of a shield-maiden was
to a large extent a tactic of copying with hostile world. She had a really hard time
in Rohan: she had to endure daily dealings with Wormtongue, while Theoden was
totally under his spell and Eomer often absent.
In the "diagnosis" of her problems Faramir tells her that she wanted to win
renown largely
to be lifted far above the mean
things that crawl on the earth
and she does not protest.
Now when confronted with more friendly enviroment she may drop her defences
and afford to express her womanly side.

Yes I am afraid women are like that - even the strongest of them like to feel from time
to time like young girls... and some of them may turn to be so motherly that they
do not let their poor men breathe!

Of course this is also an old theme of an androgynic Amazon-warrior virgin undergoing
a transformation and becoming ready for the role of wife and mother, largely uncompatible
with the role of a warrior.
In her post Swamphaye pointed out that Celt mothers continued to be warriors and
kept to teach their children swordplay... but it is one thing, play war games with
children, and another thing, go and fight the Witch Kings when you are pregnant
and/or have a babe in arms..

Did you read the old book of Robert Graves on Jason sailing in "Argo" to win the Golden
Fleece (I seem to remember that it is entitled "Sailing with Hercules" or something like
that...). There is a similar character in that book, Atalanta, a virgin hunterand warrior.
She is deeply in love in Meleager (and he in her!) but during the quest of Argo they
do not engage in physical love and behave like brothers-in-arms. But then when finally
Atalanta decides to become the real wife of Meleager, she changes completely her
personality. She becomes plump (not to say fat!) and turns to be very fond of sewing!...

swampfaye
Posts: 390

Eowyn

Post#52 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Well, being pregnant does make you very vunerable (and another reason to have a man around at this time). But *you* (I mean the royal you) seem to think that if you don't show physical stregnth, that you don't have *any* stregnth. Eowyn wasn't a 2 dimensional character who only had physical stregnth. She was frustrated because she knew what was going on with Wormtongue. That indicates a quick mind as well.

I'm very disturbed that so many people seem to think that being a mother indicates you have some how given up on being yourself. We do indeed sacrifice many things for those goals which we deem important, and that doesn't make us any weaker. Who's dreams have never altered? That person has not learned anything from their life experience.

Huan
Posts: 68

Eowyn

Post#53 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Nice post Swampy.

"Only a fool likes to here the echo of his own voice"

Its a two edged sword. For so long women were considered not being "complete" unless they we're mothers. Now if your not running Merill Lynch etc your incomplete. I like to think of neither being incompatible. I have a lot respect for Susan Sarandon who seems to have a few good ideas on what it means to be a modern warrior mother. She don't take any s..t!

Plus why d people think dream sare what you set when your 12 years old - my dreams change, evolve and I get to do most of them. As my desires change so do my dreams. Then so do your actions. Makes for a richer life according to me.

Rosie
Posts: 233

Eowyn

Post#54 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

U're right. When i was 12, i wanted to be a model. well, that dream's shot to pieces now, isn't it? LOL :D

I think (i'm going to be in a lot of trouble for this..) that people need to have children (biological or otherwise) to really mature. I'm just speaking from experience here, my mum has quite a lot of friends who are old, not married and have no kids, and they just seem kinda childish and selfish. I guess being a parent makes you a 'bigger' person. Like what Mark Twain said, can't remember the exact quote but something like how much respect he had for his father when he finally became one. But i'm being a hypocrite here, because i definitely do NOT want to have kids. :D :D :D

Ungoliant
Posts: 993

Eowyn

Post#55 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

At 12 I wanted to a Prime Minister who's also a Wimbledon Champion, and scorer of the World cup final winning goal, and a part time physicist who discovered the Theory of Everything, and Simon le Bon's wife....so I guess I've matured since then since I know that'll never happen. :D

Also agree with Rosie - women (and most men) with kids are less childish and selfish. I guess the fact that you're responsible for another life really wakes you up, and makes you grow up real fast. But again, I'm also a hypocrite since I hope to never find out. :)

A thing about people with kids that annoys me is that some of them (from experience) tend to become quite arrogant. They seem to think they have discovered all the answers to life, and tend not to listen to others as much. It's as if only their opinions matter...and if you don't embrace their point of view about the delights and wonders of children - well, it's like you've just committed an unspeakable sin. Of course I'm not saying that all parents are like that, but the arrogant ones are usually the loudest. Of course I respect their choices to be parents, and sometimes admire them for it. It's just that I resent any group that try to force their opinions down my throat...there's always another point of view.

Jehanne
Posts: 167

Eowyn

Post#56 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Ungoliant- do you ever watch Frasier? (do you even get it where you are?) Anyway, Frasier and Roz (the producer on his radio show and his best friend, and a single mom) are talking about how hard they work, how tired they are, blah blah blah. And then Roz goes for the winning goal- her kid keeps her up all night and runs her ragged during the day. Frasier snipes, "I wish I had a three-year-old, so I could win every argument!"

Nothing against parents (I'm not really planning on having kids but I probably will), but yeah, sheesh. There are normal people with kids out there, but some of them... having kids doesn't automatically turn you into a combination of Schweitzer, Einstein and Mother Theresa, okay?

Of course, I don't mean any of the moms and dads who post here. I'm sure you're all okay.

And now we're really off track. Quick, someone say something about Eowyn.

Rosie
Posts: 233

Eowyn

Post#57 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

I love Frasier. One of those american sitcoms that are actually funny- a little cliche at times but better than most. :D :D


[Edited on 22/2/2002 by Grondmaster]

Ungoliant
Posts: 993

Eowyn

Post#58 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Yeah I get Frasier...although I seldom watch tv nowadays. The only sitcom that I'd watch is 'Will & Grace' - I like that, especially that Karen woman with the squeaky voice. But I understand Frasier's feelings though...I've been in similiar situations myself. Maybe I should remember that line for the next time. :)

[Edited on 22/2/2002 by Grondmaster]

Eryan
Posts: 845

Eowyn

Post#59 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Grondy,
A timid suggestion: don't you think that it would be better to make yet another move and to transfer a part of this thread devoted to book Eowyn into "Characters" - and leave here only the discussion about the movie Eowyn and Miranda Otto? :)

User avatar
grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Eowyn

Post#60 » Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

This topic went off on a tangent from Eowyn. That portion which developed into a philosophical debate has moved to:

Taverns > The Golden Perch > Instrument of God

and has been deleted from this topic. Please try to keep the remainder of this topic on the subject of Eowyn. I Thank you!

[Edited on 22/2/2002 by Grondmaster]
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