Prince Caspian

User avatar
grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Prince Caspian

Post#1 » Fri May 23, 2008 2:39 pm

Has anyone see it yet?
'Share and enjoy'

User avatar
gandalf-olorin
Posts: 481

Prince Caspian

Post#2 » Fri May 23, 2008 4:01 pm

Some students of mine saw it. They said it was better than the first movie.

Gandalf

elanorraine
Posts: 306

Prince Caspian

Post#3 » Fri May 23, 2008 5:01 pm

I saw it, and thought it was well worth the price of admission. I'm going to see it again next Monday with my cousins and grandparents, who haven't seen it yet.

It messes with a few plot details and changes Peter's and Susan's characters a little bit; but then it brings out the idea that they are the two who are {...I just realized the original end to this sentence might be considered a spoiler if you haven't seen it or read the books...}. So I think the character change works, although I'm not fond of it. I have to go back and read the book again, though. I always thought of Caspian as younger than Peter but the movie almost makes it appear that they are the same age (or that Caspian is even a little older).

Reepicheep was brought out very well.

And the idea of being faithful was still embedded in the story -- or, rather, of being loyal, following the orders of your superiors (of those to whom your loyalty/fealty is pledged) regardless of whether or not you believe they're rational, and regardless of whether or not anyone else goes along with it, sticking to what you know is right regardless of whether or not it seems like it's "working". I was a little disappointed that Trumpkin the dwarf doesn't get to show off this aspect of his character as much as he does in the book. Lucy still gets the lion's share (pun intended) of this characterization, but she's the believer in the LWW too, so that's pretty consistent. Ed gets in on a little of this by backing up Lucy (as he does in the book)... And of course the opposite (disloyalty in the ranks) ends up being one of the downfalls of Miraz... I'd better take this discussion to the thread on the books before I end up giving the story away to those who don't know it yet.

All in all, there's more humor and more battle(s) in this one. But since the two books they were adapted from are very different stories, it's hard to say that this one is "better" than the previous one. I would say -- if you like a battle/adventure story better, then this one is better. if you like a fairy-tale better, then the first one is better.

User avatar
cloveress
Posts: 2289

Prince Caspian

Post#4 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:50 pm

I saw it and I think it's pretty good as a stand-alone movie, but for a Narnia fan who already has a set view of what the world beyond the wardrobe is supposed to be (and who cannot STAND it being changed for drama's sake), it's really really unfaithful to the book and disappointing in that sense.

NOTE: The content below contains spoilers!





The plot has been changed a lot (much more than LWW).
-Cornelius is captured by Miraz after Caspian's flight. (in the book, Cornelius flees from the palace later and meets Caspian at Dancing Lawn to warn him of Miraz's tracking parties.
-Trumpkin was not sent by Caspian to recieve the four children at Cair Paravel, as it was in the book. He was captured by the Telmarines while they were hunting for Caspian and then brought down near Cair to be executed.
-Caspian was being chased out of the palace (in the book he left in secret, without Miraz's minions on his tail)
-Caspian is dark-haired and speakes with a peculiar accent (he's described as fair-haired in the Voyage of the Dawn Treader and it says nothing about a Telmarine accent, so I don't suppose that I can say the director was wrong to give them that wierd accent. I don't find it so becoming, though)
-Caspian and Susan have a cute little crush on each other. (NOWHERE in ANY of the books is it suggested that there's such a relationship between these two characters. I mean, "You might need to call me again." WHAT?! Totally absurd. Totally just for the sake of having a love interest was that sideplot added , as is the case with many movies. But at least the inflated importance of love interests in LOTR were accurate. I mean, Arwen WAS Aragorn's lover and Eowyn WAS Faramir's lover and Rosie WAS Sam's secret crush. But Susan and Caspian? That just springs out of nowhere.)
-the four children meet Caspian in a skirmish in the woods. Peter actually has a few swipes at Caspian, mistaking him for a Telmarine soldier. (In the book, Peter and Edmund are taken to Aslan's How by Trumpkin just as Caspian and co. are losing faith in the magic of the horn. The boys rush into a council turned sour and help Caspian fight off the traitor Nikabrik, a Wer-Wolf, and a Hag who wanted to call back the White Witch)
-Peter has an heated argument with Caspian about whether they should ambush Miraz at night or just stay in Aslan's How and defend it until Aslan comes along. Peter wins in the end and they ambush Miraz's castle at night. (In the book, Peter and Caspian were always on good terms with each other. They like each other very much. Neither is trying to assert his own authority over the other, and there's no such argument.)
-Susan, Peter, Edmund, and Caspian all go to the stealthy night attack on Miraz's castle, where Caspain screws up the plan by rushing up to Miraz' bedchamber and demanding to know the truth about his father's death when he should have been opening the castle gates for the Narnians below. (There was no such thing in any part of the book. No ambush at all.)
-The ambush was unsuccessful. Peter blames this on Caspian. Caspian blames the whole thing on Peter's idea of ambushing Miraz. They both draw their swords in their tempers, but the arrival of Trumpkin, severely injured, distracts them from actually dueling. (This never happens in the books. In the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Edmund and Caspian do have an argument over royal authority on the Island of Deathwater. Caspian puts his hand on his hilt but never draws his sword because suddenly Aslan appears on a mountainside and they forget that the argument ever happened.)
-Aslan appears only near the very end (In the book, Lucy leads the other three and Trumpkin to see Aslan before they even meet Caspian. Aslan then gives all of them the breath of bravery, and the boys go to Caspian while the girls and Aslan wake up the trees and waters.)
-Peter offers the sword to Caspian after defeating Miraz in single combat. Caspian cannot kill his uncle, so he leaves Miraz kneeling there. A Telmarine lord then kills Miraz. (This doesnt't happen in the book. Miraz trips over something in the combat ring and Peter waits for him to get up. But then the telmarines rush out, Glostelle kills Miraz and cries out that Peter has treachourously slain Miraz while he was defenseless on the ground. The Telmarines charge forth, and the Narnians quickly join the battle.)
-the children and Telmarines pass through a forked tree trunk. (In the book it is a door without walls attached to it)
-Caspian tries to wake up the White Witch in Aslan's How, under the persuasion of Nikabrik, the Wer-Wolf and the Hag. The Witch appears, trapped in ice and asks for just one drop of a son of Adam's blood to free her. Caspian realizes that this is not what he wanted to call up and struggles, but his palm is already cut (by either Nikabrik or the Wer Wolf, I can't remember)and blood flows out. Then, the White Witch locks him in a seductive gaze and he holds out his hand to her, slowly moving closer. Peter and Edmund and Trumpkin rush in at this moment and fight Nikabrik, the Wer-wolf and the Hag. Peter stops Caspian from giving his blood to the Witch, but then the Witch turns her charm on him and Peter is under her spell. It is Edmund who saves them in the end by stabbing the ice in which the Witch is trapped. (In the book, the Withc never appears because the boys and Trumpkin rush in before the dark magic is actually performed. Caspian was never even tempted to do dark magic and spoke against Nikabrik when he proposed the calling up of the Witch. Peter, of course, was never tempted by the Witch in any of the books.)
-Peter loses faith in Aslan for a while, which is why he proposes the ambush and everything. (although he doesn't support Lucy's proposoal to follow the Aslan he can't see in the book, he doesn't lose faith in the Lion.)
-Edmund seems to be watching Peter's back a lot in the movie. He helps him out in a schoolboy fight in the railway station in the beginning. He stabs the White Witch as she was putting her spell on Peter. He shouts "Stop!" just as the fight between Peter and Caspian is about to break out. (There is very little of such a change in Edmund and Peter's relationship in the books. Peter's the mature leader and Edmund's still very immature in the book. He is still a child in that he sulks and annoys people, but he always backs Lucy up when the others don't.)


So the plot does change a lot, and the characters are really different, too. But the movie is quite good if you don't see it as an adaptation. I mean, a lot of my friends who've never read the books before loved the movie, and I can certainly see why. There's a lot fo fighting, some romance, troubled heros, the god arriving in the nick of time to save the good guys, the bad guys being defeated and then converted to good etc. etc.

Do see it. it's a fair watch.

elanorraine
Posts: 306

Prince Caspian

Post#5 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:15 am

Yes, all that is true, and I made virtually that same exact list in my head. Then I ignored it and enjoyed the movie a second time.

I used to be more of a stickler for not changing plot details, but then I learned to enjoy the genre for what it is.... now I only cringe when I see the spirit or message of a book or character mutilated, and I don't sweat the plot details quite so much.




I'm going to talk a little to the changes, so ---- possible plot spoilers ahead -----






I did cringe a little at the immaturity of the Peter character. Why, why, why can't a (modern) movie have a good, strong, straightforward, virtuous, mature, leading character portrayal? I felt faint echoes of the same kind of feeling I got when I saw Aragorn and Faramir made into less good, less strong characters in the LotR films (if there's a place to show Aragorn's character molding and growth, it'll be in the upcoming "in-betweener" movie, not in LoTR). But I learn to live with it.

(on the other hand, when a change turns out for the good of a character, I tend to like it better. So maybe it's not that I want adherence to the book so much that I want the best for the characters - I want the best plot - and I want the characters to be the best that they can be). So on the good side of things I like that Peter and Susan get to grow up a little. And you get to see that they're growing up, and are "ready" for growing up in England, -- something that sort of surprised me at the end of reading the book for the first time.

and yet again on the first hand - Peter did grow up in Narnia already; he was a good High King by all accounts - and "the air" of narnia working on him is supposed to make him (and all the rest) recall their narnian past and act and be more like the grown-up kings and queens they used to be, even though they still look like children. I just can't see him forsaking Aslan - I much prefer Lewis's idea (in the book) that Aslan commissions Peter (and Edmund and Trumpkin) to go in and deal with what they'll find - everything Peter does is "under" Aslan in this sense, even though Aslan is not present, and nothing Peter does "breaks faith". I don't mind that Peter heads a night raid on Miraz's castle - but I do mind that the movie indicates that Peter does this NOT as an act of faith in Aslan's commission of him as High King, but as an act of faith in himself in lieu of faith in Aslan -- THAT's what galls me the most.

And it's totally unneccessary: You could put the night raid into the plot (for the sake of movie drama and movie pacing) - and you could even make it an unsuccessful raid - without making Peter break faith by doing it. Consider: When Lucy finally leads the others to the place where she first saw Aslan, while standing there, Aslan does not appear, but (in the movie), the spot where Aslan stood ends up being the way down to the bottom of the gorge. Susan indicates in the next evening scene that she believes Aslan was in that spot earlier because they "found a way down the gorge, didn't they?" This makes it logical to conclude that, (in the movie), when Lucy sees Aslan, they all ought to head to that spot, and they will then find the path that Aslan wants them to take.

Now the second time she sees him, it seems to be portrayed (in the movie) as a sort of prophetic dream sequence. The movie makes out that Lucy wakes up and immediately goes looking for Aslan in the spot her dream indicates, (as she should), and they end up meeting Caspian in the place where Lucy has dreamed Aslan is.

Following the previous logic... you could portray this meeting as an indicator that Aslan wants them to follow the path of helping Caspian whatever way they can, until what time Aslan should show himself to Lucy again, indicating another path to follow. This could be taken as a different way of portraying Aslan's commission (in the book) to go and "deal with what they find there".

Instead of doing this, you find the movie makes it out that Lucy wants everyone to wait for Aslan and not do anything while waiting. This is totally contrary to the spirit of the book, where you do what you can, the best you can, with the orders you have and the resources you've got.... Then in the end of the film, there's an inconsistency: Lucy and Susan are not to do what Lucy said to do before (that is, to wait) -- rather they are to go search for Aslan while the boys do what they can to deal with the matter at hand, until Aslan shows up with new orders, (or new help), or until they die in the adventure.

(Of course to have written the screenplay my way means other plot problems, such as "if lucy and susan are included in the commission to "deal with what you find there", why would they go to search for aslan again if she doesn't have another vision of him?" - but that could be inserted, since we're messing with the plot anyways!)

But having said all that, the rest of the film DOES capture quite a bit of the ideas of the book, and so long as I remember that they do put Peter's character/attitude/acceptance of Aslan's orders all right by the end of the movie, it's very well done.

User avatar
virumor
Posts: 3567

Prince Caspian

Post#6 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:23 am

Why, why, why can't a (modern) movie have a good, strong, straightforward, virtuous, mature, leading character portrayal?

Because Orlando Bloom cannot possibly act in all movies out there.
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

elanorraine
Posts: 306

Prince Caspian

Post#7 » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:32 pm

Who said i was talking about him?

User avatar
grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Prince Caspian

Post#8 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:40 pm

What, you wanted Mr. Bean to star in it? :elfbiggrin:
'Share and enjoy'

User avatar
virumor
Posts: 3567

Prince Caspian

Post#9 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:35 am

Which bean, Rowan Atkinson or Sean Bean?
Give up the Halfring, she-elf...

User avatar
grondmaster
Posts: 25451

Prince Caspian

Post#10 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:07 pm

Rowan Atkinson :elfbiggrin:
'Share and enjoy'

Return to “New Releases”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests