The Angerthas

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OldRoryBrandybuck
Posts: 11

The Angerthas

Post#1 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:39 pm


Here is my thread on the dwarvish Angerthas.



The biggest reason for my starting this derives mainly from my own questions and ignorance on the matter. Since the Angerthas (or the Cirth) are probably the simplest place to start in understanding the scripts of Middle Earth, I decided to begin my studies here.



Since we don't actually have access to the Cirth fonts on this forum, you will probably want to keep a chart of the Angerthas handy (e.g., in another tab or window), and refer to each rune by its number. You will find plenty of charts in Google images (also check the book to make sure it's accurate, and not a revision of some sort).



I am certainly no expert in these areas (which is a reason I made this thread), and will probably be seeking more advice than giving it. So all of you "writing and speech experts," you would be most welcome here.



My first question is below.



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OldRoryBrandybuck
Posts: 11

The Angerthas

Post#2 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:55 pm


The beginning of the Cirth script on the opening page of The Lord of the Rings seemed to read, "the lord ov the rings." I can't understand the "ov" part. Was the voiced f discarded in favor of the v, was this writing of more ancient origin than that of the charts, or am I reading this wrong?



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Amarië
Posts: 2785

The Angerthas

Post#3 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:59 am


*runs to fetch LOTR book* The title page says: "dh-e l-o-r-d o-v dh-e r-i-ngs"



It is English written phonetically, so "ov" is correct. 


"Don't complain under the stars
about the lack of bright spots in you life."
Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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galin
Posts: 1369

The Angerthas

Post#4 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:14 am


My guess would be as Amarie noted already, that employing the voiced 'version' of this rune echoes the sound of English of



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Amarië
Posts: 2785

The Angerthas

Post#5 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:08 am


Yeah, what Galin said, 'cause it sounded smarter. ;)



I see my reply is a bit short, but it was all I had time for. I would have voiced it a bit better, but my 1,5 year old son have a hard time understanding that mommy likes to read about made up languages and letters and talk about them on the internet. Strange, I know! 


"Don't complain under the stars

about the lack of bright spots in you life."

Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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OldRoryBrandybuck
Posts: 11

The Angerthas

Post#6 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:30 pm


Oh, that makes sense. Thank you.



But would you happen to know why "dh" was used in stead of "th?"



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Amarië
Posts: 2785

The Angerthas

Post#7 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:21 pm


 



Same reason really. It is all about sound, not correct spelling. It can to a degree be compared to IPA (International Phonetic Association) used in dictionaries, where the point is to show pronunciation, not correct spelling. Like: though = ðoʊ. The = ði or ðə



I guess it also can be compared with (english) text speech. C U L8R, see you later. (But Angerthas and IPA sound the same in every language.) 



Even the letter e (# 55), is a special letter created only to show this spedific English e-sound. A sound which was not found among elves and dwarves. (IPE would call it ə ). I don't know if this is specified in the English version, since I have the Norwegian versions. But I assume it is. 


"Don't complain under the stars

about the lack of bright spots in you life."

Henrik Wergeland, Norwegian writer

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galin
Posts: 1369

The Angerthas

Post#8 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:02 pm


Generally speaking with respect to the writing systems, even within a largely orthographic approach, Tolkien sometimes ignores the (sometimes) confusing Roman orthography for English. 



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