Guidence needed on translation

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cassandria
Posts: 14

Guidence needed on translation

Post#1 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:25 am

I was wondering if someone could translate these passages from the Silmarillion for me, or guide me in the proper direction. Are there different forms of Elvish? If so which form would be accurate to the time of the creation of the 2 trees of Valinor, and the Silmarils?

"...some shadow of foreknowledge came to him of the doom that drew near; and he pondered how the light of the trees... might be preserved imperishable."

"Under her song the saplings grew and became fair and tall, and came to flower; and thus there awoke in the world the Two Trees of Valinor."

As implied, my tattoo is going to depict the 2 trees of Valinor, some representation of the Silmarils, and include one or both of these short passages in Elvish. I also plan the background to be "Starry Night" by Van Gogh, and have the final Silmaril be within one of those stars. Slightly ambitious, not sure how it's going to work out, I need to work out some details, then talk to my tattoo artist about starting drawings (which I will post for opinions!).

So where do I start with this translation? Any design ideas? Are there any picture representations of the trees or the silmarils that anyone knows of?

Balrogs R Us
Posts: 539

Guidence needed on translation

Post#2 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:08 pm


Wow that sounds awesome. As a tattoo lover, sometimes it's best to hear brutal honesty, and I gotta say I think the starry night might push it a little over the top :X  It might be perfect, but definitely make sure you get a detailed drawing before making the plunge. That's such a vivid image and is meant to be the "centerfold" of Starry Night, so it might be kind of overwhelming. BUT if you can find a nice balance between boldness and class, then it would be one of the coolest looking tats ever.



Anyways, what you want is Qenyan. I don't know of anywhere that specifically translates passages, but I believe you can piece the words together yourself if you have a "dictionary." We can't post links here, so go to google and search "English to Elven Translator." There will be a Yahoo question link with that same question that has a bunch of other links inside which involve translating to elvish. It might be a bit of a task though, but then your tat will feel that much more genuine. Good luck, be sure to let us know how it goes!



User avatar
brego
Posts: 1275

Guidence needed on translation

Post#3 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:50 pm

Yes Cassandria sounds ambitious and beautiful. As Balrogs said, there are a few translators on line, however creating sentences can be tricky. Few people, if any on Earth have or can master Quenya and there are errors everywhere. Especially if you want actual Feanorien script and not Westron translation. I'd have a really good look for someone who has actually studied. Good luck!

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arath
Posts: 661

Guidence needed on translation

Post#4 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:28 pm


I call thee forth Galin!



User avatar
cassandria
Posts: 14

Guidence needed on translation

Post#5 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:57 pm


Thank you guys for responding, I have had quite a time finding anyone to give me any guidance on this. I am VERY hesitant to translate it myself, or completely trust anyone (should they give me some unsavory script to tattoo on myself... LOL )



 



I'm a little lost.  And I really don't want it to be incorrect.



Balrogs R Us
Posts: 539

Guidence needed on translation

Post#6 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:48 am


Honestly, I don't really see someone who actually devoted their time to studying and learning elvish trying to swindle someone who wants to put all that time to good use. You could ask at the tattoo shop, I'm sure someone else has wanted elvish and had to find someone to translate it for them. I don't know where you're from, but Craigslist, maybe?



glorfindel
Posts: 285

Guidence needed on translation

Post#7 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:30 am

True Tolkien elvish can't be learn but there are people who have added things in making it a more usable language. But as stated earlier, translating a sentence will be hard.

glorfindel
Posts: 285

Guidence needed on translation

Post#8 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:44 pm

Next best thing is google for Tolkien font. It will look elvish.

User avatar
galin
Posts: 1369

Guidence needed on translation

Post#9 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:51 pm


Hello Cassandria (and Arath) :)



Someone somewhere could likely suggest something in Neo-elvish, but that's what it would be, a fan invented Neo-elvish suggestion. Some people don't mind that, but this is what Carl Hostetter (an expert in Tolkien's languages) has to say, in part, on the matter of translation, from his website (the Elvish Linguistic Fellowship):




'... but that is a far cry from being able to speak these languages, and cannot even justify a claim of 'authenticity', since for any but the most trivial compositions it will remain exceedingly unlikely that Tolkien himself would have produced or countenanced the result himself.'




So if you want accuracy, especially for a tattoo, I think it's best to take something directly from Tolkien, or at least keep things very simple. Also I don't recommend dictionary translation in general, even if you can find a reliable enough Quenya dictionary on the web. 



Anyway what you could do is write these sentences in English using the Elvish lettering, that way it will still look Elvish.



For Quenya [most people mean Exilic Quenya when they say Quenya, as there are different stages of Quenya] I would go out on a limb (no pun intended) and say *Aldu Valinóreo for 'Two Trees of Valinor', considering Tolkien's Aldudénie and his Yénie Valinóreo for 'Annals of Valinor', although obviously you wanted much more than that. 



I realize if you don't know how to write English using the Elvish letters you are still in a similar boat. I could transcribe my Neo-elvish *Aldu Valinóreo for you by referring you to the numbered chart in the back of The Return of the King (in other words, I could give certain numbers from the chart and you could look them up to see the basic shapes of the letters), but the English quotes are a bit long.



Some can make the Elvish writing appear in these threads. They are wizards I guess. I cannot. Sorry.



User avatar
cassandria
Posts: 14

Guidence needed on translation

Post#10 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:22 pm


I am dying of excitement, I may have found someone to do it.



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