whats always confused me...

isawien
Posts: 11

whats always confused me...

Post#1 » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:44 pm

At the End of the Third Age, would Middle Earth be similar to what Middle Earth was like in the First Age?? :lookar:

what i mean is, where would Beleriand be in comparison to Gondor??

i know both are along the West Coast, but thats it...

does anyone else know?? :elfconfused:

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caudimordax
Posts: 412

whats always confused me...

Post#2 » Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:51 pm

What...If you need to, you can look at a map in the Silm. Or maybe I don't understand your question.

Besides topographically middle earth wouldn't really be similiar to the first age. Because in the first age melkor kept sabotaging the works of the other valar and ainur (sp?). Also there weren't orcs and men in the first age... I believe. At least they weren't as dominant, with the recession of the elves. I do need to reread the Silm, and I guess I could suggest the same for you.

Hope I could help...But I probably didn't. :funnylaugh:

Morambar
Posts: 1022

whats always confused me...

Post#3 » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:31 pm

With the exception of the immediate environs of Orodruin (which feature prominently in a short story I thought I could never share, but get to write now that i can post it here) I don't thing Middle-Earth changes significantly at the end of the Third Age. It might have changed more after the drowning of Numenor. So the location of Beleriand is unchanged: largely submerged.

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miruvor
Posts: 849

whats always confused me...

Post#4 » Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:32 pm

Besides topographically middle earth wouldn't really be similiar to the first age. Because in the first age melkor kept sabotaging the works of the other valar and ainur (sp?). Also there weren't orcs and men in the first age... I believe. At least they weren't as dominant, with the recession of the elves. I do need to reread the Silm, and I guess I could suggest the same for you.

The First Age began when the Sun was made and when the Noldor returned to Beleriand to retrieve the Silmarils. Melkor marred the works of the Valar during the making of Arda, hence ages before the First Age began; even before the Valar made Valinor and the Age of the Trees began.

Not to mention, the First Age was full of Orcs, Elves, Dwarves and Men. There were hardly any Orcs and Elves left in the Fourth Age.

what i mean is, where would Beleriand be in comparison to Gondor??

Most part of Beleriand sank under the waves after the First Age. This didn't exactly happen to Gondor.

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

whats always confused me...

Post#5 » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:03 pm

Yup, the only things that got submerged at the end of the Third Age were Sarumen's underground works in Isengard and the area of Mordor in the vicinty of Orodruin which was inundated by lava flows and ash. Oh and Barad-Dûr, whose foundation sort of floated apart when the ground under it liquified, causing the tower to crumble. I suppose there was also a tide or tsunami of Sauron's allies fleeing towards the south and east to their homelands.
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cloveress
Posts: 2289

whats always confused me...

Post#6 » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:04 pm

In the War of Wrath the forces of both sides were so fierce that the whole Beleriand got drowned. Read the Silmarillion carefully, it should be in the war of wrath section, something about the "sea running through many chasms in the earth" and stuff. Anyways, Beleriand sunk beneath the sea. But Beleriand was always on the west side of Middle-Earth. And you'll notice on the maps at the back of the Sil. and LOTR they have one thing in common : the blue mountains at the easternmost of Beleriand and the blue mountains at the northwestern of ME. So, in comparision to Gondor, Bekeriand would be on the west or northwest side.

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miruvor
Posts: 849

whats always confused me...

Post#7 » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:28 pm

and LOTR they have one thing in common : the blue mountains at the easternmost of Beleriand and the blue mountains at the northwestern of ME. So, in comparision to Gondor, Bekeriand would be on the west or northwest side.

Lindon of Middle-Earth = East Ossiriand of Beleriand.

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eädollon
Posts: 44

whats always confused me...

Post#8 » Mon May 07, 2007 4:23 pm

check out here for a reconstitution of Beleriand

Not quite sure it is reliable - but seems quite correct.

Apart from that I'm new here - so hello to everybody. :elfroleeyes:

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mellon
Posts: 6262

whats always confused me...

Post#9 » Tue May 08, 2007 1:15 pm

Heya Eädollon:wavehello: I'm not very good on reading maps but I did have a look at it ..
Anyway welcome to PT :) `Nice Avatar . hope to see you around

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grondmaster
Posts: 25451

whats always confused me...

Post#10 » Tue May 08, 2007 5:51 pm

Hi Eädollon, welcome to our happy family. :happyelf:

That map is okay except I think it is bent too far to the northwest once it gets west of the Gulf of Lune. This is probably due to the curature of Arda and projecting a curved map onto a flat page.

However now that I've looked at it I guess it depend where you put the Gulf of Lune. I figured it lies between the two Cities of the Dwarves, putting them both under water. And then I figured that Nargothrond was at about the same latitude as the Grey Havens. Of course I'm probably wrong on all this. We do have Himling as a common point on both maps which should help.
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