Sister and so on

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galin
Posts: 1369

Sister and so on

Post#1 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:37 pm


Decided this would better go in languages...



 




Brego wrote: How about "Hiril Osellëier Envinyatar" for Leelee. Lady Sister Healer?




That looks like a mix of Sindarin and Quenya: Envinyatar is Quenya for 'Renewer' for example, although I'm not sure what 'Oselleier' intends to mean; and we have Sindarin hiril 'lady'.



In Etymologies we have Noldorin thêl 'sister' but this might have been superseded much later, noting the opinion -- admittedly an opinion and stated with 'probably' -- of the editors of the journal Vinyar Tengwar: '[just as NETH- 'sister' in HFN probably replaces the Etymologies base THEL-, THELES- 'sister'].'



 So in this late *text we end up with Sindarin nîth for 'sister' For feminine 'healer' someone coined a Neo-sindarin word *nethril (with masculine *nethron) for the game 'Elendor Mush' although I forget who coined it (it might have been the person who worked on the Neo-elvish for the films), based on Bair Nestad (nestad *healing) published in The War of the Ring. So if one wants 'lady sister healer' using nethril, this would leave...



*hiril nîth nethril



While employing the older word...



*hiril thêl nethril ...



might break up the repetition of n at least, if that sounds better.



 __________



*in the context of these papers various names appear with respect to a particular finger, as part of the Eldarin 'play names' for fingers. 'Little sister' for example thus refers to a finger as 'little father' also refers to another finger -- although so far I would agree that one could arguably use some of these words otherwise.



For more on that, see 'Eldarin Hands, Fingers & Numerals' and related writings by J.R.R. Tolkien, published in Vinyar Tengwar 47 and 48, edited by Patrick H. Wynne.



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brego
Posts: 1275

Sister and so on

Post#2 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:08 am

Thanks Galin. I only put it together because I liked the sound of it, and the mixture of Sindarin and Quenya words sounded like a nice name for a wonderful member like Leelee. There is more to a name, Galin than just strict word use discipline. If there wasn't, what a boring world we'd live in.

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galin
Posts: 1369

Sister and so on

Post#3 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:15 pm


Well you posted earlier in the original thread...




Ill look something up in Sindarin....




... giving the impression, at least, that you were after Sindarin, not a mix. But that aside...



 ... what does 'Oselleier' mean in any case?



 



This seemingly has something to do with the 'sister' part (given 'lady' and 'renewer' for the rest), which is why I titled the thread as I did.



 Giv



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brego
Posts: 1275

Sister and so on

Post#4 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:04 pm

The name means Lady, Sister, Healer or at least that's the meaning behind it. You've already answered your own question Galin. By the way, it's a name, not a literal interpretation but the feeling behind the meaning. I tell you what Galin, you can continue using yours If you find it too cumbersome or unlovely. I won't mind.

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leelee
Posts: 2293

Sister and so on

Post#5 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:34 am


How very Elvish language challenged I am. With learning Hebrew and tuning up all the romance languages and preparing to learn Okanagan I am sorry to say I left off looking into the beautiful languages of the Elves. So this is totally fascinating and amazing to me.



Honestly though, no such words should apply to me, especially after wiping out one of my most beloved threads, poor Elbereth. I am surprised I did not accidentally remove all of Planet-Tolkien in my stupor. And honestly, the very most honest feelings of my heart, Amarie, Ilse, and about two dozen other females should be called that here way,,,WAY above me. Not joking.



Back to Quenya and Sindarin. Where would I find a book or site that would be the most informed and correct to learn these languages. I feel I simply must.



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arwen undómiel
Posts: 510

Sister and so on

Post#6 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:03 pm


Oh dearest Rachel. Just because you say such things about me and others you deserve it. Really. Love.


''Loyalty is the only moral instinct that can exist on the same plane as truth itself. They may clash, but one can never overcome the other without cost.''

Semper Fi ⚓ ∞

Namárië

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galin
Posts: 1369

Sister and so on

Post#7 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:55 pm



Back to Quenya and Sindarin. Where would I find a book or site that would be the most informed and correct to learn these languages. I feel I simply must.




 



Leelee, I often recommend starting with the FAQ and resource link at the Elvish Linguistic Fellowship (E.L.F.), at...



http://www.elvish.org/



 



FAQ



http://www.elvish.org/FAQ.html 



Resources (books and the web and so on)



http://www.elvish.org/resources.html 



 Especially see Carl Hostetter's essay 'Elvish as She Is Spoke' under articles



http://www.elvish.org/articles/ 



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galin
Posts: 1369

Sister and so on

Post#8 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:58 pm



Brego wrote: You've already answered your own question Galin.




 



I'm questioning the word 'Oselleier' Brego -- I'm guessing that you're claiming it means 'sister' as I know without checking what attested hiril and envinyatarr mean, and where they come from.  meanr mean, and where they come from).r  So let's put it this way as a simple question... 



... from what source does 'Oselleier' meaning 'sister' (in any Elvish tongue) come from?



 



Can you please source or explain this specific word.



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leelee
Posts: 2293

Sister and so on

Post#9 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:43 pm


Ah Ilse my love, I could rob Lloyds of London and you would hug me and say I must have had a good reason. :)



Galin, thankyou for that, I mean that from the inward heart. For years I have been rambling about the information highway and seemed to only find dead ends. There was a course from London but at the time I was working with little Hasia to begin to bring back her speech following the dreadful virus she contracted, I had absolutely no time with her part home schooling. And now I am back free lance writing once more and have switched my para legal course for straight criminology, hand writing analysis and so don't have a great deal of time. so..........THANKS. And oh what a relief I did not erase my city or my beloved Planet-Tolkien today. what a dear relief.



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brego
Posts: 1275

Sister and so on

Post#10 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:33 pm

Yes Galin I mean Sister. And Leelee you feel like a sister to me and definately a healer. Anyhow you'll always be Leelee to me.

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