Thread: the balrogs wings
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*slap* (just kidding...
but seriously, the anime movie could be a misinterpretation...unless Tolkien had creative control over it and said, "put wings on that balrog there". Actually, after reading (well, skimming) Plastic's marathon post in 'the belrog' topic, I kind of think that they don't have wings...
and the debate rages on...
(friendly slap that is)
Have a look at the aforementioned marathon post, it has compelling evidence for both ideas, though eventually the no wings wins. (what do anime directors know?)
BTW, the marathon post is "borrowed" from a far more informed source than my head!
Utterly half-inched would be more honest and accurate
stop slapping me, ill have a welt :o
okay. I wouldn't want to give you a welt.
*slaps grondy instead, just for fun*
Wow, PlasticSquirrel, seriously taking your life into your hands there!
i reckon he might have had wings, used to fly around and visit Shelob but found a cosy cave to hibernate and the wings became rather redundant. like the coxic(spelling??) bone.
does this thread really have a point other than establishing the point that Balrog does not have wings?
or is everyone having some sort of a slappin' competition??[Edited on 24/1/2002 by Rosie][Edited on 25/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
We is havin' a slappin' competition! Care to join in?
[Edited on 25/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Even in this movie the balrog had wings and in the books they are descriped with wings, although i don't no were
u deleted all the best bits!
so the balrog has or has not got wings?
i was under the impression that it did. some vague description in the book.
Just checked on the movie Balrog. It does not have wings, unless they were invisible.
As for the book balrog ... I guess we will never really know that one unless someone finds a reliable medium. I am inclined to think that it did not though.
Ah well, so much for the Samuel L. Jackson tributes!
No-one will ever definitively prove the whole Balrog wings thing. Wonder what CT thinks of it?
Dear Grondmaster that pages doesn't prove anything.
I still go for the winged version though my statement about the appaerence of the wings has changed to the wings are made of shadow. Afterall we are dealing with a maya whom didn't need to take physical form so i think the wings could be made of Shadow (it's a fantasy book after all)
wringwraiths, sauron etc blah blah blah
and for not being able to fly.. well chickens can't strousses can't pinguins can't do i need to go on? So his wings were used for terror to impose fear upon it's beholders
as for it's size remember Gandalf, whom appeared to grow in size (speaking to bilbo about the ring during is farewell thingie
this is a really nice discussion we could go on (as the post off plastic suggested if believe there are wings there are if not there aren't this reminds me some how of the discworld)
as for Gadalf came flying down the stairs .. well Isomehow always imagined he was flying.... just hovering above the ground.. coz if he could actually fly he didn't need a bird to escape from Orthanc
*Disclaimer* Okay me English isn't very good so I'm not sure I understood everything said in that article. I'm even very sure I didn't
Boring: You got the general drift of what it said, and as Plastic Squirrel has been saying for ages, it can't be definitively settled one way or the other. And those who wish to argue will choose one side or the other and become fanatical in their defense of that choice.
Help - I do not know what you guys are talking about. Balrog - which creatures are these. The one at the great hall where these creatures scale down the pillars??
Uugh - its been ages I've caught the movie (actually only two weeks).
Coccyx ( I think, but cannot be arsed to look it up)
And yeah, the big flaming B*stard who kills Gandalf (ish)
The Balrog had no wings, but he wore fluffy bedrrom slippers. Proof is here (well, the debate anyway
They were carpet slippers, similar to the ones sometimes worn by the ferocious Cuddly Badgers awarded by the Plastic Squirrel; same as the ones worn at home by Badger in 'The Wind in the Willows'. I know this for a fact, because no self-respecting Balrog would ever be caught dead wearing fluffy bedroom slippers*.
*Unless of course they resembled long eared, pink bunny wabbits to which Balrogs are partial--to wear, not to eat, as they don't taste anything like chicken, as Gandalf could attest, had they not been carpet slippers. :P
[Edited on 27/1/2002 by Grondmaster]
Doesn't it say in the book that "a shadow reached out LIKE two vast wings, from wall to wall" sth like that. If it says LIKE, it can just be an image you get when you see this Balrog approaching you. You can think: hey this thing's got wings, when it hasn't...
Doesn't the balrog in the movie reflect the depiction by Ted Nasmith of Tolkien scenes. As a matter of fact, I think the art director took a great deal from Ted Nasmith's art. Is the art gallery back up on this site? If so, then check it out yourselves.
I was almost certain that Ted Nasmith did his own balrog, but in the meantime, here's another artist's rendering:
*drags this topic out
The Balrog had wings!
It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itselfup to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen....
About two paragraphs after Toms quote.
And you can order Balrog wings from Barliman in the chat room which is complete proof...
I thought Alan Lee and John Howe were the artists that were working on the visual production of the movie?
uh, well my rememberences from the original art gallery in this site were several pictures from Nasmith that seemed immortalized in the film. And it may be that there can be only so many acurate artistic renderings of what the postAuthorID describes.
I was wondering if they used any Tolkien artists in the art direction of the film. I'm glad they did.
The link-picture looks just like a bull with wings. And where does it take place, definetely not in the mines of Moria. :P
42: I noticed that too now, and I've posted a comment in "the belrog".
Retraction of Earlier Comment:
I just saw a better, clearer version of the FOTR. The Balrod definately had something resembling bat-like wings, although I couldn't make out any webbing just bone-structure.
*runs and hides
If I remember rightly Alyssa (which I probably don't) they were terribly smoky and shadowy and thus, vague. Allowing us to continue these arguments as long as we like.
Luckily for us (and for him, I guess) PJ wasn't very clear in this. If he had been, he would have disappointed and upset a great many people by either leaving them out or putting them in. It's a complicated world... :o
I don't see what's so wrong about PJ being vague about the wings of the balrog. They are mystic creatures so let there be something mysterious about them.
I think the Balrog's wings were made of smoke which came from his fiery heart through vertical vents in his sides. That way they could intimidate by filling an entire room, wall-to-wall, yet couldn't support his weight in flight.
Could be true. In any case I don't think they were strong enough to carry his weight, otherwise he would have used them, and if they were, he could not possibly have lived in Moria.
According to this link the Balrog has wings. This is the official company making all the miniatures for the New Line. I have been buying all my minatures from them since the begining. They had to get the approval of the model from PJ and New Line before they could produce the model. So at least in the movie the Balrog had wings. LOL
Take a look and see what you think.
See, the Balrog's wings are too made of smoke.
And the debate goes on, and on, and on, .....
The photos took too long to download, so I didn't see most of the pictures on that link, but hey, do we have to believe this?
the balrog has wings.. why you ask... because it says so in the book.... it shows them in the movie... and most importantly, because I GIMLI the only one of you to have actually seen a balrog in person, says so!
[Edited on 5/7/2002 by gimli_axe_wielder]
Oh, and I suppose you weren't lying either, when you said, "I chopped down the cherry tree with my little hatchet." Oh, that was George Washington, 'The Father of our Country' whose birthday we celebrate today, the countries, not George's.
[Edited on 4/7/2002 by Grondmaster]
well, we could celebrate his aswell, if you want to... :P
The Balrog has wings? I think you must be confused Gimli what with all that time spent in mines and whatnot, breathing in too many toxic fumes i fancy. Balrogs dont have wings!!!!!!!!! Birds, insects,airplanes, angels (fallen or otherwise), pegasi etc and sanitary towels have wings. Balrogs don't. Or at least thats what I think now. When I first read it I thought they had wings. hmmmm.
couldnt find Balrog icon so this is close enough, and it even has inocuos wing things on the sides for the "wings" faction
I wonder if Tolkien did this on purpose to create a conversation piece. The first mention of the Balrog’s "wings"
…..His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out LIKE two vast wings.
Then 2 paragraphs down
…..It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall;…
I think that Tolkien is referring to the shadow spreading from wall to wall. No actual wings. But Grondmaster is right, this conversation will go on forever and ever and ever and ever……
btw: How do you set the quotes of in little boxes like y'all been doin'.
(The quotes marks have been Grondied)
[Edited on 6/7/2002 by Grondmaster]
Rednell: Look just above the composition area and find the yellow comic strip conversation baloon (it is between the envelope and the world), click on it and add your text between the middle two brackets.
Once you see the format "quote" between brackets for on; and "/quote" between brackets for off, you may find it easier to type them in the middle of your text, rather than using the button. Main thing to remember is the "/ " is the off command. Use this same format for Bold, Italics, and Underline. I have yet to fathom the # button's usage.
[Edited on 6/7/2002 by Grondmaster]
Yes, Gadalf was a Maia, wasn't he? Did have a pair of wings tucked under those robes of his? Not that I was aware of, but I suppose it is possible, if you abscribe to the "If Tolkien didn't say it was impossible, then it must be possible" theory.
Leaf shaped ears? Depends on the leaf....what if you consider Maple leaves? I am still not buying it.
I think it is possible that dwarf women look like men without beards. Unless one was in the know about their existance, one would probably assume that they were just young berdless, male dwarves.
I still cant believe that a creature that has wings could fall into a chasm. Even if they were only partially operational, they would at least slow his decent (parachute like) and save it a great deal of injury. It could also have finished off Gandalf by dropping him on the way, as it glided to a more gentle landing itself. Yet Gandalf survived at least as well as it did, if not in better condition. Maybe he landed on top of it and was cushioned? But it would still need to be falling at least as fast as he was. I am no expert in such matters, does this make sense Grondy?
I'm with Gimli, I totally think it had wings. I have nothing to support my belief other than what has already been said, but I believe. Besides, doesn't it look cool with wings?
Anyway, I'm just seeing if my theory works for this thread. What theory is that you ask? Well apparenltly, whenever I start participating in a thread it DIES! Quickly. You may call me...Threadslayer!
[Edited on 7/28/02 by ProgHead777]
ProgHead: You may be The Threadslayer, but I'm usually the one that kills off the Storyboard type threads. Maybe it is because I take a neat concept and then instead of letting it run for a while, I think up a gag and nobody feels the need to continue on. Guess we just need to answer a question with a question. Don't you think?
Regarding Balrog wings: They are like pointed ears on elves; maybe they exists, maybe they don't. The postAuthorID wasn't specific; thus, you can argue either way and be right or wrong, depending on the nature of your audience.
well my opinion is (if that matters) balrogs mayhaps lesser Valar, and aren't Valars kinda like angels? angels=wings
OOOPPPSSS what have i done...did i just do a threadslaying here.....oh nooooo
baaahh.proghead...threadslayer?! thats nothing compared to ALONE
okay okay....FALL is coming but still
[Edited on 29/7/2002 by tuesday]
Not quite slayed yet, Balrogs are Maia like Sauron and Gandalf yeah, but neither of them have got wings, and neither have the valar either, so still no wings kids.
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Balrogs do not have wings, dwarf women do not have beards and elves do not have pointy ears! Where do movie directors get these notions?