Thread: Gollum & Moria
apparently gollum started to track the member from there. but how did he get out when the bridge collapsed after boromir and aragorn?
"Well, well! ' said the wizard. `The passage is blocked behind us now and there is only one way out on the other side of the mountains."
"I cannot say,' answered Gandalf. 'It depends on many chances. But going straight, without mishap or losing our way, we shall take three or four marches, I expect. It cannot be less than forty miles from West-door to East-gate in a direct line, and the road may wind much."
These seem to indicate only two gates for the whole of Moria.
perhaps you're right about he spider way but elesssar i don't thing there was another way except the bridge. if you remember the chapter you will see that the bridge was described as "an ancient defence of the dwarves aginst any enemy who might win the first hall" and i don't think that the dwarves would make another way to counter there own defence.
Gandalf found another way out, didn't he? Though it was rather a transdimensional backway.
That is what I was thinking. Perhaps the miserble rat could cling onto the cragy walls of Moria and climb across that way.
Now I'm doubt of his theory as well. I was reading the books again when I came on this: "...its black walls, polished and smooth as glass, flashed and glittered."
This describes the habitable parts of Moria. But it makes me also think that as the Bridge of Khazad Dum was adjacent to the great gates of the city the dwarves would surely have done the same to the lower halls. I doubt Gollum however crafty he was could have scaled me.
It is my belief that the bridge of Khazad Dum was the only was out. Considering that the distance between the two ends was 50 feet I wonder how the orcs also got out this quick to pursue the Company. It is true that they could have built something but that would require some time considering the unfathomed depth of the abyss immediately beneath it.
Personally, I think that the most likely explanation is that Tolkien was just wrapped up in his personal affairs (Typical of the egotistical, artsy type. ) and forgot to provide the orcs with a way out. While Tolkien was attempting to advance his story, the orcs found their own way out. They may have been guided out by the will of Sauron, which, if I remember correctly, was causing them to stir from their mountain hiding places at the time. It is even possible that one of the Nazgul ferried them across on one of those flying, dragony things.
Or, just maybe, something like this happened:
First Orc: O!! Gartaug, we is stuck on this side of the chasm.
Second Orc: I can see that, Slog! What are you gonna do about it?
Slog: I dunno, maybe if we skin one of them trolls, we could build a hang-glider, and...
New Orc Voice (Emanating from a hole in the ceiling): What's all the fuss down there about? Have you Moria Orcs been dipping into the old Dwarven whiskey again?
Gartaug: Cousin Rashbald, is that you whinging up there?
Rashbald: @#$! right I am! What are you lot up to?
Gartaug: Those short people with the orthopedic disorder came through here, and they wrecked our bridge!
Rashbald: HA! Stuck inside your caverns then? I told you not to go fooling around in Dwarve's diggings, but you thought there would be treasure. Good luck getting the treasure out without your bridge! We're doing fine up here, in proper, element-eroded orc-caverns. Don't worry, we'll get those miniature, non-incestual Oedipus wannabe's. Even if we have to burn down the Elf forest to do it! (Rashbald's voice is muffled) Come on, boys, six tootsie roles to whoever finds me that pretty golden thing that has the gap that your finger can go right through! Whatcha call those...RIngs! That's it...
Or maybe not.
I think it is both, I think he tried his best to remember and such, but with all that philology and papers to mark and lecturing and study of other myths in other languages and the children and his dearest wife Edith and his pals and such, it had to happen I think that a mistake or just plain fatigue and picking something out just to get it done may have occured. I am sure his son knows.
I am watching LOTR FOTR, and i am in the seen right where golum first appears when froto sees him.
I was more concerned on how Gollum got into the caves of Maria?
From what I gathered, from the time they entered the cave to the spot where froto sees him, would of only been less than 2 days, since it is 4 days across the mines.
So that means Gollum would have been following them before the cave entrance, and there is no way he got through the big door cause everything feel down.
Now stick with me on this. If Gollum had gotten into the cave he must have found another entrance, which must have been a delay on his schedule of following them.
Which means, Gandoloph must have seen or known of his presence 3 days prior, which would of been before the cave entrance(I am fairly sure of), so when we see him it must be about day 2 in the cave. Cause after they see him, they show twice as much footage of them in the cave, so at the time of seeing Gollum it could of only been one day.
Obviously Gollum must have found another entrance, one that he must of got through. I am positive that he was delayed, cause even if he were to go through the rubble, he would of had to wait for the squid monster in the lake.
As for exiting the cave, well there were a bunch of chains, and small wooden bridges, he could of made his way across, but with out that bridge and skills like spiderman, it must have taken him atleast 1-2 days to get to the exit.
"Legolas turned and set an arrow to the string, though it was a long shot for his small bow. He drew, but his hand fell, and the arrow slipped to the ground. He gave a cry of dismay and fear. Two great trolls appeared; they bore great slabs of stone, and flung them down to serve as gangways over the fire. But it was not the trolls that had filled the Elf with terror. The ranks of the orcs had opened, and they crowded away, as if they themselves were afraid. Something was coming up behind them. What it was could not be seen: it was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and to go before it."
More Trolls could have used slabs of stone and other things found in Moria to create a temp- bridge. I think that this whole chapter highlights Tolkien's ability to write in an amzingly exciting way to truly capture the reader.
Dismay and fear would be mild to what I would feel and how I would react. Tolkien, what a writer, what a dreamer, for he must have been so up in that attic to come up with all this, an entire world with history and just everything. perfect, like a dance.
Yeah that's a good question!
Since Gollum's used to living underground and in the mountains, he would probably be able to find a way out.
Oooh what an interesting thread! Wish I had been around when it came about.
I don't think it's at all unlikely Gollum escaped the same way as the fellowship. The question now is how. Scaling seems the most likely but least logical. Thorin had the most logical but slightly unlikely explanation of the orcs or trolls building their own way out. I don't think they were smart enough to plan out a "just in case" escape route, particularly since they didn't think or plan on leaving ever again, but I do believe they were smart enough to build a way out.
The only other explanation is like someone mentioned he clearly found another way in. He certainly did not sneak in with all of the others as the wall collapses. And if he was following them it seems unlikely he'd be able to go all the way around the mountain and through the back entrance within a few days.
Thus, there had to be another way in, meaning there was also another way out.
My last point is do we have an actual reference to the orcs leaving Moria after the bridge collapses?
Gollum lived in the misty mountains for 500 years. He would of found a different way in and out whether it was naturally made or by the dwarves. Many places that the dwarves build in moria were lost and forgotton even to the dwarves themselves. An example would be the endless stairway to Durin's Tower ontop of Zirakzigil. This was only in legend sometime in the TA and was only rediscovered by Gandalf and Durin's Bane during their battle. So Gollum must of found a different way in.