Thread: I feel sorry for them already
I do think Sam will continue being his harda*sed self as pertains to Gollum while maintaining a soft motherly regard towards Mr. Frodo. The contrast between Sam and Frodo's interaction with Gollum is there to show that while Gollum is bad and would slit your throat if not watched like a hawk, he does have some redeeming qualities if you could just dig deep enough.
The only time I started to feel sorry for Frodo was when he realised he couldn't stay in the Shire. But that's in RotK.
As to whether Sam'll be nicer to Gollum - I doubt it. I hope so, but that would eventually mean changing the reasons why Gollum succumbed to the pull of the ring at the end. Rosie pointed out that Gollum almost relented at the last minute, but Sam's harsh attitude towards him changed his mind. If Sam was nicer to Gollum, then it would mean that Gollum betrayed them because he was inherently evil, not due to any extenuating circumstances. PJ would probably go down that route too, to absolve Sam from any guilt.
I actually kinda see what you mean, Swampfaye. I never felt sorry for Frodo (or Sam) in the book, except for the fact that that Frodo couldn't stay home in the Shire (I hated that). All things considered, the quest turned out pretty well for them (especially for Sam, unless you like slash fan fic...). But in the movie, yeah, I do kinda dread what they have coming. And it's totally because Elijah Wood looks so young and breakable, and Sean Astin is so plump and sturdy-looking. Poor little guys. Good casting, if they can make /me/ feel maternal (because I'm really not). So yeah, for me anyway, I do feel sorry for movie-Frodo and Sam, but only movie-Frodo and Sam (not the book ones). These darn films are going to give me multiple personalities.
The only time I felt sorry for Sam is when he thinks Frodo is dead (even though I know he isn't) and when Frodo and Sam have to part at the Grey Havens.
I was relieved when I read Sam also travels to the West after Rosie died. I hope Sam and Frodo eventually meet again.
I just want to add a small comment on Gollum. I don't think Sam is to blame for the betrail of Gollum. Gollum and Smeagol were always competing. The closer they get to Mordor and Mount Doom, the more Gollum dominates. He already made his mind up leading them to Shelob. He would have done it anyhow. I think the Ring plays a role here. Remember Gandalf always said: it wants to be found. I think the Ring 'knows' Frodo wants to detroy it. It tries to escape Mount Doom. His only change is Gollum (and not Smeagol). So I believe it manipulates Gollums mind. If Gollum would clame the Ring his own, the Eye would know and Gollum would be to weak to resist. So, I don't think we have to blame Sam for Gollums behaviour.
Well done, gnampie, fair comment!
I really feel sorry for Smeagol, he gets a bad rap.
Part of Frodo's heartache was the self-accusation that he gave into the power of the ring, requiring Gollum to destroy it, even if by accident. Frodo felt Gollum's death was on his hands, not realizing that Gollum probably would have gone stark raving bonkers once the ring hit the fire, requiring Sam to bloody his hands defending his master from Gollum's mad attack.
Frodo says, himself, that he would not have been able to destroy the ring. I agree with Grondmaster. Well put.
In his letters, Tolkien speculates that Gollum would have thrown himself into the fiery pit, as would have Frodo, when they realized that Sauron would be claiming the ring (letter #246)
It is easy to feel sorry for Elijah Wood's character with his great big baby blues. I did not like the way Sam treated Gollum. In fact, I wonder if Sam may have been a little jealous of Gollum. I felt bad for Gollum in the end, as well. But then, again, I felt sorry for Judas Iscasiot, for the same reason. They were the means to achieve the ends.
Why didn't Frodo go mad when the ring was taken from him? Maybe his depression back at the Shire was his form of madness. That is the part that bugged me. Gandalf said if the ring was taken by force then the bearer would go mad, Frodo did not appear to go mad.
And I donít like the way Gollum treats others. Even when he first sees the ring he kills his friend only to posses the ring himself. He didnít even knew what it could do. I always thought he was a weak person and I did feel sorry for him. He missed so much. All he ever cared about was that ring. He even didnít like life. Frodo had almost been able to change this. Gollum liked Frodo, but still he wanted to continue with his plan only to get his precious back. I know the ring itself has a lot to do with this, as I said before. But I must admit I silently hoped he would have fallen into his own trap and Shelob would have eaten him. I donít think Sam treated Gollum bad. He didnít trust him and he was right about that. He never hurt him unless to defend Frodo or himself. I think if Sam had reacted on Gollum the way Frodo did, both would have been death before they even got to Shelob.
Do I feel sorry for either of them. Hell no!
I don't feel sorry for them at all.
**** 'em. They deserve everything they get if you ask me.
My god! You people didn't even like the book, did you?!
I felt very sorry for all of them at one point or another. In the chapter "The Stairs Of Cirith Ungol" in TTT, there's a scene with Gollum that made me feel very sorry for him. For a second, looking at Sam and Frodo sleeping, Gollum realises what he's become and recognizes in the two hobbits what he's never had himself, thanks to the ring: friendship and loyalty.
Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee - but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.
Then Sam wakes up and snaps at him, yet it's hard to blame Sam. Being the simple farmer type he doesn't see any good in Gollum, although Frodo can. I think Gollum may be one of the most tragic figures in LotR. Agree?
[Edited on 8/3/02 by ProgHead777]
I hate it when Gullom bites off Frodos finger!
Me too, now the poor little guy can't make so many rude gestures. Seriously though, this is one of the only parts in the entire LotR story that I actualy felt sorry for the little guy Poor Frodo.
Frodo felt Gollum's death was on his hands
Well, on his finger anyways
But if Gollum hadn't bit off Frodo's Finger what kinda story would "nine fingered frodo" be then?
Poor old Gollum didn't show up in time; he was off rooting for grubs and stuff for his breakfast, and got there too late. Meanwhile, Frodo and Sam have made their way to the Crack of Doom. Frodo puts the ring on, just for one last time, for old time's sake, and then try as he might, he can't get it back off, and Sauron has noticed him, and now Frodo knows it. Frodo is frantic!!!
'Sam! Do something!! I can't get it off!!!'
'Alright Mr. Frodo, just you calm down and give me you hand.'
Frodo places his invisible hand into Sam's. Sam proceeds to bite off the finger, ring, and all, which he then spits-out over the edge into the molten lava below.
And the story then continues as Old JRR wrote it, except Gollum now makes his way to Ithilien where, with Faramir's blessing, he retires in a hidden grotto where the sunlight's subdued and the fisheses are fat and bountiful. So now they all, live happily ever after, even if some of them have to sail off into the sunset in order to find their final happiness.
That's beautiful Grondy.