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Hey, Eldar, welcome! Smile Smilie

Nope, she's not an elf. She (like Tom) might be one of the Maiar, but that's not really clear. She seems to be some sort of water-spirit, like her mother (since she's called the "River-daughter"). I always pictured her like a classical water nymph, like Daphne only without the whole tree thing. Goldberry's origins are pretty mysterious though (not unlike Tom's really. Fun couple).
so where can I find out about some of Gold Berry's History and is the Maiar the chidren of the Valar??? sorry guys Im new to Tolkeins world!!!!!!!

But youve got to learn somewhere!!!
Hello again Eldar. We met in the chat room remember?

The Maiar are "lesser spirits", but not physically children of the Valar. It is popularly believed that Gandalf and the Istari were lesser Maiar. Kinda explains a lot doesn't it? The Maiar were able to take a physical form or body if they wished. Melian the queen of Doriath was another Maiar who inhabbited Middle Earth.
Some also believe that Tom & Goldberry were Valar. i.e. Tom = Aule, Goldberry = Yavanna.
Does Goldberry appear anywhere else in Tolkiens books???
Welcome to the forum Eldar.

Yes, Goldberry appears in Tolkiens poem, 'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil' which can be found in 'The Tolkien Reader' which is now out of print. I have a ninth printing: May 1970 of Ballantine Books, Inc. paperback, for which I paid 95 cents US when it was new. Its pages are now quite yellowed, but holding to their binding.

I posted a snippet of this poem on 5/2/2002 at 03:50 under 'General Discussion' and 'Trivia: Barad-dur'.
Some also believe that Tom & Goldberry were Valar. i.e. Tom = Aule, Goldberry = Yavanna.

That's an interesting idea! I never pictured the father of the dwarves as a singing woodsman with yellow boots and a really bad hat... He seems altogether too cheerful to be a smith.
Goldberry as Yavanna? Maybe. She does seem to have a certain "power" or "aura" about her. I could never understand what she saw in Tom though.
I remember reading a convincing argument about it a few years ago, although the ones about them being Maias are more convincing I guess. The argument (TB & G = Valar) was more tongue-in-cheek, but it made some good points. Smile Smilie

It had something to do with Tom being totally unaffected by the One Ring - all other Maias feared to use it. And since Sauron was a Maia himself, it followed that only a Vala would be strong enough to resist the power of the ring.

Also something about Yavanna being dressed in green all the time - like Goldberry. The essay also contemplated on the possibility that Tom & Goldberry (Aule & Yavanna) lived incognito on ME in order to keep an eye on Aule's children, Yavanna's trees & stuff - since Sauron had returned. Something like that.

Btw the 'Adventures of Tom Bombadil' is out of print, but someone told me that you can read it in the 'Tolkien Reader'. Can anyone confirm this?
As for Tom's appeal - well, he cooks, cleans, gives her flowers and is totally under her thumb (remember when he told the hobbits that he had to rush back cos 'Goldberry is waiting'?). And he seemed faithful enough....men like that are tough to find. Smile Smilie
I think the Valar argument was one of mine once. I was being fairly antagonistic, it is now pretty much generally accepted that they were both Maia, though the ring thing is still a puzzler...
Btw the 'Adventures of Tom Bombadil' is out of print, but someone told me that you can read it in the 'Tolkien Reader'. Can anyone confirm this?
Ungoliant: I thought that is what I said in my above post of 6/2/2002 at 02:46 Wink Smilie
Ooops so you did Grondie. Smile Smilie Btw what else is in the Tolkien reader? Is it worth buying?
The Tolkien Reader (out of print) contains the following:
'Tolkien's Magic Ring'--an essay by Peter S. Beagle which can serve as an introduction to 'The Hobbit' and 'The Lord of the Rings'.

'The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth Beorhthelm's Son'--a short play based on The Battle of Malden , which is itself part of an epic poem about a tenth century battle.

'Tree and Leaf'--which contains Tolkien's lengthy essay, 'On Fairy-stories' and the short story, 'Leaf by Niggle'.

'Farmer Giles of Ham'--which is the short title of a story called 'The Rise and Wonderful Adventures of Farmer Giles, Lord of Tame, Count of Worminghall and King of the Little Kingdom'.

'The Adventures of Tom Bombadil'--which is a compilation of sixteen of Tolkien's poems, most of which do not appear in the 'Lord of the Rings'. It does contain all thirteen verses to 'The Man in the Moon Stayed Up Too Late'. This was the poem that got Mr. Underhill into his Bree trouble, when he put his foot, or should I say, finger into it.
Copied from Other Books posted on 13/1/2002 at 03:00 Big Smile Smilie
Hey! Alyssa! Read Ungoliant's post. It's true! I am a faithful husband, you know? Big Smile Smilie
But what am I??? Smile Smilie Ungoliant had a good point there. Or was it Plastic?
Well Tommy I've posted a mini-poll just for you in the Green Dragon under 'Suggestions' - so you can decide what you are. Smile Smilie
Great. Was starting to feel a little lost... Smile Smilie
The Tolkien Reader (out of print)

Wow! I saw it in the bookstore the other day - just one last copy left. Better go back & get it then.
Oh, so now the money grubbers have fired up there presses again to piggyback on the Movies popularity. Big Smile Smilie I doubt if it can be obtained for less than $6.95 let alone the original 95 cents.

I'm right, it's $6.99 plus shipping at Am***n.com. (I checked after writing the above paragraph.)
Hmm...costs about USD9.50 at the bookstore. Actually I originally saw it way before last week - but there were at least 3 copies there, but last week there was only 1 left. About 6 months or a year ago I think.

Maybe it's just the Adventures of TB that's out of print, not the entire Tolkien reader?
That could well be it. And as it is illustrated, and is only 64 pages long , it was probably never printed in the US as a stand alone volume. So the 'Tolkien Reader' will have to do. Smile Smilie

Was the one you saw paperback or hardcover?
Tolkien reader would do, if I could find it. The bookshop doesn't seem to have it. Even more: they've never heard of it! What kind of a country am I living in??? Smile Smilie
Paperback Grondie.

Belgium, Tommy. Are you surprised? Big Smile Smilie
:o Language Golly!
Oops sorry Plastic.


There, better?
Much Big Smile Smilie thank you.
I dont get it, why do u spell Belguim like that???
cos it's an expletive like f**k or S**t. (at least in the books of Douglas Adams it is anyway) Smile Smilie
The best explanation is in 'Life, the Universe and Everything'. Where this guy was awarded A Rory for "The Most Gratuitous Use of the Word 'Belgium' in a Serious Screenplay. Its very prestigious." Wink Smilie
Tut-tut Grondy. It's B*lgium. Big Smile Smilie
Except when used in an artistic way and I was quoting directly from the book. So there! :P
Ok guys who can tell me what are the first words that comes out of Goldberry's mouth in the FOTR?
( lets go for 100 postBodys in this thread)
Now let the song begin! let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon, and mist, rain and cloudy weather,
Light on the budding leaf, dew on the feather,
Wind on the open hill, bells on the heather,
Reeds by the shady pool, lilies on the water:
Old Tom Bombadil and the River-daughter!
'Fellowship of the Ring', Book 1, last page of Chapter 6 entitled the "The Old Forest" Cool Smilie
That was a song, not spoken words. But then she always sings, she never seems to speak...

And what's wrong with Belgium?? Everything, I guess, but I live here, so I'm the only one who can say that! You've never even been here, have you? :P
And what reason could I ever have to go there? (excepting some fairly fine lagers, and coming to meet you of course)
When you're about three years older, of course. Wink Smilie
That's not what I meant at all Grondy, and you know it! :o
I will give you an other reason to visit Belgium.
Maybe you English people want to taste some good food for a change! :P
What are you trying to say Gnamp? Nowt wrong with pie and mash! :smoke
How about a nice bowl of mussels with the famous Belgian chips and as desert real Belgian chocolate!
Yuk! Mussels! Seafood sucks, bigtime. :boom
:shocked Seafood is great! Mussels aren't as good as scallops though....And how famous are the chips? Never heard of them......:0
Me either. :rolleyes
Well, come over and try some. Nowhere else you can find such good chips. (with 'chips' I mean 'French fries' but I was trying to avoid that :P)

Now, how do we get back to Goldberry? Maybe strawberries or blueberries are a step in the right direction. Big Smile Smilie

[Edited on 15/4/2002 by gnampie]
Oh, I remember now, Belgium invented chips didn't they? And Pringle, we like pringles....
Apart from that all you've got is Plastic Bertrand musically, and he just ripped off a Damned song and did it really badly.
Oh really, and what about Hooverphonic or K's Choice?
Or do you prefer Praha Khan and The Lords of Acid?
Or maybe Helmut Lotti or the one and only Eddy Wally! :P

[Edited on 15/4/2002 by gnampie]
You see, cos only Belgians have ever heard of them. :P
Unless anybody wants to prove me wrong?
Though I do like the sound of the Lords of Acid...
Now then! Now then! What's all this?

Okay ladies! Seeing as how I can't award you a Rory for "The Most Gratuitous Use of the Word 'Belgium'* in a Serious Screenplay", forum, or food-fight, I must ask you to desist or take it to a tavern, where you can get a pint or two with which to wash it all down.

Thank you,


*Normally spelled B*lgium in this thread. See references to Life, the Universe, and Everything elsewhere in this thread. :wink

[Edited on 15/4/2002 by Grondmaster]
OK Grondy, I 'm sorry.
I promise I wont say the B-word again in this topic.

About Goldberry and Tom, I never really understood them. It is still not one of my favourite parts in the story. They may be very happy, but I always felt they created some kind of fantasty world around them and didn't dare to face what was really happening, running away from problems. I always thought Frodo was stronger than Tom or Goldberry.
Gnampie: You can say the B-word any time you like, I just think Douglas Adams picking on your nice unassuming country's name was funny. Had he picked on Iowa or Schenectady (NY) also would have been funny, just not as much. And as both you and Tommy Bomb live in that fair country, it just gave the Skwrl and me a chance to show off, even if it was at Belgium's expense. Very Evil Smilie

You are right about Tom and Goldberry living in a fantasy world, oblivious to the world around them, or at least to the non-natural events taking place around them. Their strengths are different from the other beings in Middle-earth and as such, are better suited for hosts of a hostel or hospital, rather than as participants on a quest to save the world. Smile Smilie
Chips are usually called French Fries here, I don't know why though. We invented them! And the Belgian chocolates are famous! And our beers are great too, how many did we have again? :P Much more than you guys over in Britain, that's for sure!

Let's see about music: we have... all the ones listed by Gnampie, and... oh well, there's nothing wrong with our music! :P

LOL! I love your new status, Plastic! "Posting freak?" I think I'll be going for that one too! Ha Ha Ha Smilie

You can't ask Tom or Goldberry to go on a quest. They'd never leave the Old Forest for a start, and if they did, after two days they'd have forgotten where they should be going and what for! :o Wish I had a mind like that, it's the perfect excuse! (Frodo would have loved to say this, I'm sure) Ha Ha Ha Smilie
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