Eryan began this thread with the following post.



Allyssa replied

Hmmm, yes there is definately something about Beren. So much so, that he even attracts elf-princesses. What is it about the edain that make the elf-maids hearts go pitter patter?

Beren is a tragic, yet noble figure. My favourite part is when he gallantly agrees to take on the quest laid on him by Thingol even though he knows the spiteful old king is trying to send him to his death. It is also sad that death will take him away from his greatest friend - Finrod Felagund.

I suppose there is an implication that Tolkien saw himself as an elf-friend. Surely the greatest of them all!!

That's a great analogy Eryan! And a great movie, and the best bit of a great movie as well. I love that bit.

Sky blue here too (only just saw Gladiator last week and got blown away, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ridley Scott is a f***ing genius) so I'm going to go out with Rambo, head to the offy for some beverages, then rent a couple of movies and spend the rest of the day more usefully.

And the Toy Maker in 'Blade Runner' is another example of this: he is also prematurely aging, and he continues creating his friends, that they might live on after he passes.

you're living in it's ultimate fate now.

:o

yeah, but I'm not George Burns, so I'm going to point out that Tolkien was creating an alternative mythology, and always intended Middle Earth to be a primaeval version of our own World. So I mean the real world (which this Forum is just a part of)

True, true, and Tol Eressea is now Great Britain (I'm NOT joking! - it was told somewhere, I forgot where... )
So why I wondered about "the ultimate fate" of that world? I'd like to know what happened after Dagor Dagorach and before we switched to our own history...
What do you mean Ungoliant by Beren being a wimp?

When asked a question like this, George Burns would ask, "How, did you take it?"

Upon receiving an answer, he would reply, "That's how I meant it."

Nice thought, but I think the parallels got lost by the time of Lotr. And the Rohirrim came out of the North and were Blonde and well Nordic. And the Dunedain could be nothing other than pure brits, noble of bearing etc. etc.

Yeah, alright, there's pretty much no such thing as a pure brit, except possibly the Celts, we've been invaded that many times and have altogether far too much french in us for my liking, I was just trying to make us look more noble, Hobbits is much closer to the truth I'm afraid, lazy b*ggers who sit about in pubs smoking all day!
Asterix couldn't have been a dunedain, he was too short...

For me, Rohirrim are Germans, such as in Wagner's world (Siegmund, Sieglind, Siegfried...). The only difference is that they are horsemen. And that is perhaps a trait borrowed from... Poles!
There was a family legend in Tolkien's family that the name "Tolkien" is derived from the German name "Tollkuehn", which means "foolhardy". That ancestor of Tolkien earned his nickname because he fought very valiantly during the battle of Vienna (at the end of XVII century). Vienna was then in exactly the same situation as Minas Tirith, besieged by hosts of Turcs ready to invade and subdue the whole Europe. And the City was saved because the siege was broken by riders from the North - Poles, faithful allies of Vienna, led by an old hero king Jan Sobieski, also known as the Lion of Lechistan (Lechistan = Poland in Turkish). However, in contrast to Theoden he was not slain. And did you know that... Bonnie Prince Charlie was his grandson - the son of his daughter?
Jan Sobieski was an incredible person. A hero, a warrior, and also a romantic lover. His queen was a French lady Marie d'Arquien (called by him "Marysienka"), and their letters are still a delight to read! He used to describe her in detail all events of his everyday life... when gone to a grim war!... They were absolutely mad about each other even when they were already quite old.
As for Dunedain, they are descendants of Numenoreans, and Numenor is Atlantis. Some weeks ago I have seen on Discovery channel a programme about Nazi mythology and I was rather shocked (in a sad way) to remark several similarities between the world of Tolkien and the Nazi idea about Aryas as descendants of the people of Atlantis. Attention, this does NOT mean that Tolkien was a Nazi!!! He was very indignant against Hitler. He wrote once that Hitler and the Nazis twisted the noble principles of the heroic code of the North.

Continuing my duty to resurrect dead threads:

The noblest words of the Silmarillion may be Berens to Thingol on his return.

And Thingol answered: 'What of your quest, and of your vow?'

But Beren said: 'It is fulfilled. Even now a Silmaril is in my hand.'

The Silmaril seemed to think Beren was alright.

Having just finished rereading LT2 (well, the Gondolin bits anyway; I have to admit to being slightly bored with B/L, but I'll get back to it, promise) it's fresh in my mind how Tolkien intended Eressea to become Britain AND Ireland (Osse resisted the transport of Tol Eressea to Middle-Earth and Ireland broke off) and even went so far as to suggest that the ENGLISH (or the Angles if one prefers, whom Tolkien well knew were late come to Britain long after the tales of HIS Elves were lore) preserved the stories of Middle-Earth and that the Celts had a distorted view of the Elves and their tales (though the Celts remain the best source for "Tolkien Elves" though those appearing in Norse sagas resemble them at times.)

All of that said, I thought we long ago agreed that the Shire was modeled on the late nineteenth century English countryside close to Tolkiens boyhood heart (to the extent that his personal dislike for the son of the "the old miller" was translated into Ted Sandyman.).

That is tremendously interesting. JRRT has not written about it in his Letters, but this historical event might be his inspiration for the Éorlingas breaking the Siege of Minas Tirith.