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Let Rambo play an Orc... Big Smile Smilie
Faye: that would indeed be a wonderful ending. Let's hope PJ is reading this... :P
oh well, what good would it do anyway? the film's all bee shot.
it *would* be interesting if PJ happened to be reading these posts. would be mortally insulted, most likely.
Good, he deserves it. Big Smile Smilie

Don't you go calling my Doggy an Orc, I'll send him round to bite your legs off... He will be playing Aragorn, and no arguments!
You'd have to get Rambo awake for that threat to hold water. I don't think Tommy need worry.

And everyone knows Rambo can play Aragorn in his sleep; its Sam Gamgee's part he can't handle. Big Smile Smilie
and i've got dibs on playing Shelob! Big Smile Smilie
Ha ha! He's awake! And there's many things he'd like to do to Sam Gamgee's part, none of them involve playing though Big Smile Smilie
If Plastic likes Gollum
and Gollum likes Frodo
and Frodo likes Sam
then Plastic likes Sam....
Well I like Sam best of all! He is the only one of the fellowship to protect Frodo who doesn't think about himself. He even doesn't care so much for the ring. The only thing that matters to him is getting Frodo back to the Shire alive (and not only to Mount Doom, but also back again). He loves Frodo more than anything. Sam thinks low of himself and is scared most of the time. But when Frodo is in danger he shows more courage then any of the others because he isn't trying to save his own life, he only wants to protect Frodo. He even doesn't realise how brave he is. Frodo would never had made it to Mount Doom if Sam wasn't with him. Sam kept him together, bringing him back to his senses when the madness of the Ring is getting to him. Sam gives Frodo his share of food and water, carries him on his back when Frodo is exhausted and he would give his own hand to save Frodo's finger. He never ever thinks about himself.
That is what I call a real friend!
I do not agree with your logic Faye, very unfunny. Good try though.

Gnampie, hello by the way, and those are all very valid points, but I would have come to the conclusion that that was what I'd call a real Doormat. Big Smile Smilie
Welcome to the forum Gnampie.

I agree Sam is a fine fellow and could only be considered as a doormat had Frodo left everything to his relatives instead of to Sam. So pay no attention to that squirrel behind the curtain. Wink Smilie
Boo! We hates Gamgee! We hates it forever...sssss... :P
what are POV's? I can't figure it out.

I agree with you, but I also think we get attracted to some characters because we see some characteristics of ourselves in them. Or opposit they have characteristics we lack, but would like to have.

Now Plastic, don't jump to the conclusion I am a doormat! Wink Smilie
*laugh* Me? Jump to conclusions? surely not? Wink Smilie
Btw, POV= Point Of View
I guess it depends on your perspective. To some... sam is a doormat, to others he is a hero. It reminds me of when my friend from High school asked me how things were and an update on my life. After I told her everything, she said "What happened to you? You let a man controll your life???" on the same day my husband had to leave his friends house early to help me with the baby... his friend said to him "You're wife sure has you on a short leash!" LOL... I suppose it is all a matter of perspective.

Tolkien did tell the last two books in Sam's perspective, though. I think Sam was truly the only hobbit to whom most of his readers could relate. Our concern for Frodo was Sam's and our distrust of Gollum was Sam's. I think it very odd that TOlkien changed POV's so harshly in the middle of his plot. It does not happen very often in books that you change POV's ... I think in one of my writing classes that was a "definite, no-no". But every rule is made to be broken.
I think that the change of POV in LOTR (from Frodo to Sam) was a very mature artistic decision. Frodo was involved in such a grim and demanding internal struggle that we would no more be able to see the "real" world through his eyes. Anyway, the change of POV did not occur once for all in a bang-bang way. For instance, in the description of Frodo stalking Gollum fishing in the pool of Henneth Annun we return once more to the former POV and we see all through Frodo's eyes.
too many people using the word "artistic" lately. Art is entirely a matter of objective perspective. I didn't criticize the change of POV, I only mentioned it because it is unusual and very striking and clear cut in this case.
Art is entirely a matter of objective perspective

What do you mean?
Is ANY objective perspective possible at all?
[Edited on 28/2/2002 by Grondmaster]
No perspective is truly objective, because no person is ever able to look at something without any bias at all...I agree with faye, though...I think the switch was a little tough, but I think the story was the better for it...considering Frodo's state of mind for the last part of the book, it might have been even more difficult to relate to him.
I am a new kid on the block here, and I confess that I like Samwise Gamgee. Maybe that's because I'm a heartlad Yank from Texas. I also love the squabbling back and forth you do over Sam. To tell the truth, Tolkien couldn't make up his mind about Sam either. At one point, in a letter in 1944, Tolkien talks about "the Englishry of this jewel among the hobbits." Then, in another letter in 1963, he says that Sam irritates and even infuriates some readers. (He must have snuck a look at these postings.) He accuses Sam of being cocksure, conceited and filled with mental myopia. (Probably all true!) So Sam definitely has his ups and downs. But I can't help liking a guy who sticks to his friends like Sam does. And no one in the LOTR would, in my opinion, be a better father than Sam. He better be with that many kids!!
Welcome to the forum Sharon, now we have two from Texas.

Sam is a good guy; we just have some contrarians who like to pick on him because he won't give them the time of day--Hobbits don't wear digital watches. Big Smile Smilie
yes, yes we all know he's a wonderful guy but that still doesn't excuse him for being so darn annoying and narrow-minded. not to mention boring. he's definitely not the type of guy i'd be friends with. Big Smile Smilie
Narrow-minded people may be very very nice if they are kind, well-meaning, and not trying to bully others. However, narrow-minded people who do not realize that they are narrow-minded and try to subdue everybody... this is a real horror!
But Sam belongs decidedly to the first type, the "nice" one!
And he is a little narrow-minded mainly because he did not have the good luck to profit from good education...
I don't believe Sam was narrow minded at all (and Howdy Sharon from a fellow Texan, though I'm an adopted Texan). He was no more narrow minded than ARagorn who was openly distrustful of everyone around him but those he knew well. This is a natural reaction in times when harm is a very real potential. Can I mention that I note most of the people who don't like Sam are English? LOTR made it's success first in America, mostly in colleges and other bastians of the young minds yearning for something ... (just something...). I think it's because the English really didn't like (or maybe the appropriate word was "appreciate") the English slant to the book. After all, it's fantasy... you want something "different"... not familiar as the place you live in. Now maybe Sam still isn't far enough removed from your typical English country bumpkin to appeal to the English, but he is quite apealing to those of us on the outside. It may be mindset, it may be the influence of the country, but American's seem rather fond of Sam...
I'm american, and I'm not terribly partial to Sam...
i'm neither english nor american and i dislike sam...
Hey, hey, what's all this about English and American people! Don't forget there are also other nationalities around here as well! Wink Smilie I am neither of both. I am not even English speaking.
Maybe I am taking this the wrong way, and if I do, I appologise, but some reactions seem to have a bit of an angry undertone (hope this is an English word)
You know, there is no right or wrong about this topic. Some like Sam, some don't! Life would be no fun if we all had the same opinion. There's nothing wrong about standing up for your opinion, but you still have to accept others may have a different opinion and respect that. I don't belief it has anything to do with being English or American. It has to do with your personality. We don't all like the same people or have the same friends. I like Sam and I would welcome a friend like Sam any time. Still I can understand some people think Sam is boring or annoying. They have every right to feel that way, just as I have the right to like him. Some like loud people, active people, extravert people, party people. Others like quiet people, relyable, loyal or calm people. And yet others may like a bit of both. Who is wrong? No one is! We are all different with different taste and that's what makes this world beautiful! As long as we can respect eachother being different.

I don't think Sam is narrow minded. He is careful with who he trusts. Gandalf taught him so (be careful with who you trust, the enemy has many spies). But he is able to change his mind about someone and admit his first idea was wrong. So he can open up his mind and accept other people. He even feels pity for gollum, letting him live when he has a change of killing him.
But that's just my opinion. Smile Smilie
I certainly didn't say all American's like Sam... I just noted that most of the people I know who don't like Sam are in fact English. My opinion remains the same on why - I think Bashki totally ruined Sam for most people who read the book *after* his movie. His Sam was awful. I also think that PJ will make millions of new Sam converts (though I'm certain Plastic will disagree).
Sharon, from Texas, back again. You know one of the things you have to wonder about Sam is what happened when it was his turn to go to the Grey Havens and sail West. He wasn't hurting in the same way Frodo and Bilbo were so he wouldn'thave needed as much of that kind of healing. Maybe Sam had to spend his time there learning to think and feel in a little more open way. He was also the only Ring-bearer with a wife and family. How would he feel away from them? Or had Rosie passed on already? I also wonder what might have happened to Elanor. From the little glimpse we saw of her in the Middle-Earth history she seemed pretty extraordinary for a hobbit. Just wondering!
Mistress Rose died on Mid-year's Day 1482 S.R.; Sam left Bag End on September 22, gave the Red Book to Elanor at the Tower Hills, and headed for the Grey Havens and the ship.

Elanor and husband Fastred were 'Wardens of the Westmarch' and their first son and his descendants were known as the Fairbairns of Westmarch. 'The Red Book of the Westmarch' got its name at this time and was held as a prized possession of the family for generations. I assume their second son's family was known as the Fairbairns of the Towers. And both shoots live in their respective homes on the slopes of the Tower Hills and at 'Undertowers', respectively, for many generations.
Didn't Pippin marry one of Sam's daughters? Now that would be a story I'd love to hear... "The Courtship of Pippin's Wife." Especially if Sam were the father in law.
No, Pippin married Diamond of Long Cleeve in 1427 S.R. Their son, Faramir Took married Goldilocks Gamgee, daughter of Sam in 1463 S.R. Smile Smilie
Did someone mention my name? I disagree with whatever I was meant to disagree with. Big Smile Smilie
Sam Gamgee was the best character!!! Pippin was good 2..... :P! but i didnt like Frodo, for some reason....
Sam was always loyal, and had courage when he needed it. He always kept his promise with "Mr. Frodo":
'Don't you lose him Samwise Gamgee,'
He made a very good hobbit.

P.S. Im Irish, but I do like Sam!
will every1 go 2 this website? it shows u what every cast member looked like on/off the set....
if this website is incorrect, just post and say so and ill check it out! Here it is:


Just type the actor/actresses's name into 'Search' There u go!
Wink Smilie

oops... the website is
www.imbd.com/PGallery! Smile Smilie

NOTE from Grondmaster: neither the above link nor its subsequent correction worked for me. Sad Smilie
[Edited on 6/3/2002 by Grondmaster]
Read this!
LOL!!! that's my article... hehehe, I used the "submit news" form for that one in Feb (I think?) - I have a new one coming out soon and I'll submit it here in the "submit news" section when it comes out.

Did you like it then gnampie?
Swampfaye: As one of the Sam's fans, I liked your sffworld.com article. I've also been to your WebPage and especially liked the artwork. Smile Smilie
Much as I hate Sam, I liked the article Faye, and I like your site too (only just noticed the www link under your name thanks to Grondy) am surfing through it in another window as I write these words....
Hey Faye,
yes I loved your article! It's exactly how I see Sam.
I've been to your website as well, very nice!
*blush* thanks... my editorial comes out weekly at LOTRonline.com and I probably should put a link up to them at my site.

BUT... back to Sam - a friend of mine, a phd who is writing a paper on the movie, asked me why I felt the way I do about Sam, and the thing that stuck out to her that I wrote was that Sam was "all fulfilled potential". Sam, I think, is what we hope we will be when called upon to serve.

I can't really even describe why I like him... only what I like about him. It's not like he's exceptionally outgoing or anything... it's very hard to reconcile logically, but I like him so much...he must be good!!!
You just like Sam. If you're any good that is... :P
He's such a good, well-meaning fellow. He's naieve, but so what? He'll do anything to protect his master, which can be considered his best friend, and he loves his father. What else can he be but a doormat? :P
I love Sam! and I've been trying to explain why but I only came up with corny things that don't do any justice to the depths of my feelings towards the way friendship is shown trough this character. Well, I just can say that he moves me, deeply.
Hi negra, welcome to the forum! I am glad to find an other companion here.
I also love Sam for his deep friendship and love for Frodo. It makes him very beautiful, no matter how he looks like.
He is my favourite character.
Hey Negra! Welcome! Duck Smilie

Sam is the living proof that appearances are not important to be lovely. Big Smile Smilie (Thank god for that!) Wink Smilie:
I missed some newbies here last time, but a warm welcome to them from me now. Big Smile Smilie

I think I tend to identify with side kicks. Is that a good or a bad sign? Tongue Smilie
I just realized that I am always attracted to the side kick... Gabrielle, Iolaus, Han Solo, Sam, there must be something about them - hmmmm - I'm definitely not a side kick sort of person myself, so I can't help but wonder why I like side kicks so much!
well, you said you're not the sidekick sort of person, which I"m taking to mean that you're pretty much a leader, so probably you like sidekick types because you could see yourself getting along with them. You might have a personality clash with someone who's as strong a leader as you, so you probably lean towards people who will help you out in what you want.
good, very good... if you take off that ridiculous hat and those yellow boots.. you can hang around me Wink Smilie (maybe the yellow boots *are* kinda side kick ish... but the hat has got to go!)
Found a quote today from Frodo about Sam I thought I'd point out:

"First he was a conspirator, now he's a jester. He'll end up by becoming a wizard - or a warrior!"

Which means to me he thought it more unlikely Sam would be a warrior than him becomming a wizard... Why is that? Was Sam "wise" like Gandalf - he certainly wasn't the sort of warrior that Pip and Merry became - was Tolkiens intent to make Sam a sort of Hobbit version of Gandalf?
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