Here is the log from October 12th. We only managed to discuss Helm's Deep, so next week we will cover The Road to Isengard.
Start of #bilbos-study buffer: Sun Oct 12 18:37:10 2003
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[17:34] Well, should we go ahead with the discussion or look
for a more suitable time?
[17:35] can we do it now?
[17:35] sure we can
[17:35] i cam on specially
[17:35] I'm game for now
[17:35] then, now it is.
[17:36] We will begin with Helm's Deep
[17:36] We had noticed often that the weather seemed to
reflect the mood of the scene.
[17:37] I think we will notice the same can be found here.
[17:37] In what direction is the company travelling?
[17:37] north west?
[17:38] How do we know they are travelling towards the west?
[17:39] the sun was coming up
[17:39] the light of the evening sun was in their eyes
[17:39] right, Grondmaster
[17:39] and it wouldn't be in their eyes unless they were
[17:41] Even though the sun was setting and the weather was
clear, why does it not have a pleasant feel to it?
[17:42] the misty mountains are shown to be ever darker and
[17:42] that doesn't sound to nice
[17:42] the air was heavy
[17:42] and it was hotter than normal
[17:42] good Rawien and Grondmaster
[17:43] Darkness, "a very storm from Mordor", was closing in
[17:43] Why did Theoden decide to take his army to Helm's Deep?
[17:43] and in the morning a great storm was brewing in
[17:44] he thought that no army could break the keep
[17:45] because a rider came and told them if the loss of
the Fords to a great enemy army
[17:45] correct Grondmaster.
[17:45] Did they leave Edoras with the intention of going to
[17:46] they were going to the fords of isen
[17:46] they meant to reiforce the Fords I think
[17:46] where they not?
[17:46] That is correct, Grondy
[17:48] They only decided to go to Helm's Deep because Ceorl
had told them that they had lost the battle at the Fords of Isen and
Erkenbrand had headed towards Helm's Deep
[17:48] Who had built Helm's Deep?
[17:48] The Numenoreans?
[17:49] i dunno
[17:50] The last of the Sea-Kings of Gondor
[17:50] Then Rohan took it over and cared for it.
[17:52] There have been a couple of references to Wormtongue
in this chapter that leads me to believe that everyone was not
completely convinced of his evil treachery.
[17:52] One is a comment from one of the guards.
[17:53] that was when Gandalf rode away
[17:53] yes, Grondmaster, that was the first comment I had
[17:54] Gandalf left with really no explanation as to why he
was leaving them to complete the journey to Helm's Deep without him.
This seemed somewhat disconcerting to the guard.
[17:55] "Wormtongue, were he here, would not find it hard to
[17:56] Did anyone notice another comment which indicated that
Wormtongue was not looked at with hatred?
[17:56] does that suggest that Grima would say something bad
against Gandalf then?
[17:57] no, I think it means that Grima would explain why he
left, if he had to do so.
[17:57] Theoden said he missed both his councilers
[17:57] Gandalf is not known for sharing his gameplan
[17:57] yes, Grondmaster, that was the other comment that I
[17:58] In the far past Grima had proven his worth as a
loyal subject to Theoden
[17:58] His trechery was more recent
[17:59] I agree and I really don't think that Gandalf had
really convinced Theoden of Grima's absolute treachery. Theoden was
still willing to have Wormtongue ride into battle with him
[18:01] The fact that Grima did not could mean that he was a
coward perhaps, not necessarily a traitor, in the eyes of Rohan
[18:02] yet someone said later they has seen Grima in the
company of Orcs
[18:03] yes, but following that revelation, Theoden said that
he missed both his counsellors
[18:04] It is hard to give up a friend, we want to cut
them some slack
[18:04] but it could have been just nostalgic comment. That
he wished Grima was not so treacherous and could be there to counsel
[18:04] yes, that is a good point, Grondy.
[18:05] (LadyFeawen's coming in)
[18:05] What did Theoden and Aragorn see on the journey to
[18:05] [18:05] What did Theoden and Aragorn see on
the journey to Helm's Deep?
[18:05] for noe Theoden must do with Eomer and Aragorn for
[18:06] what was done with these torches, Rawien?
[18:06] the burning of the homesteads
[18:07] yes, something very hard for a King to see.
[18:07] (welcome, Fea)
[18:08] (thanks Rawien)
[18:08] Notice the weather at this point as we approach Helm's
[18:09] it was dark
[18:09] why so dark, Grondmaster?
[18:09] yes, no moon and no stars. A storm is brewing.
[18:10] and it kept getting darker
[18:11] I found at this point the friendship between Legolas
and Gimli is becoming closer and Legolas is comfortable telling Gimli
how he feels. What does he say?
[18:12] and the air was very heavy from the approaching
[18:12] that he is glad to have him standing nigh
[18:13] Ok, how about pointing our a few highlights of the
Battle of Helm's Deep
[18:13] Legolas doesn't like Helms Deep
[18:14] neither does Gimli likes Fangorn forest
[18:14] They enemy broke through the Dike like water
[18:15] how did the enemy break through?
[18:15] by climbing over thier dead
[18:15] that was one way, yes
[18:16] yes, Rawien
[18:16] that was how they climbed the Wall
[18:17] Aragorn reported to Theoden a "devilry from Orthanc",
what was it?
[18:17] gunpowder or nitro
[18:17] Gun powder, bombs
[18:17] a 'blasting fire'
[18:18] in other words, gunpowder, yes
[18:18] "It is said that the Hornburg ahs never fallen to
assult," said Theoden, "but now my heart is doubtful.
[18:18] they opened up the channel and came through the
[18:19] and they brought a battering ram up the causeway
[18:19] "...maybe I should not so rashly have ridden forth to
meet it for all the arts of Gandalf. His cousel seems not now so good
as it did under the morning sun"
[18:19] Yes, it is looking pretty grim.
[18:20] His was a normal sentiment
[18:20] How does Aragorn react?
[18:21] he says not to judge the counsel of gandalf
[18:21] He told him to be hopeful for the dawn
[18:23] Yes, "So great a power and royalty was revealed in
Aragorn, as he stood there alone above the ruined gares before the
host of his enemies, that many of the wild men paused and look back
over their shoulders to the valley and some looked up doubtfully at
[18:24] and then Aragorn prophesied the doom of thr orcs
to their face
[18:25] Yes, and what was it that caused the Orcs to tremble?
[18:26] the Horn of Helm
[18:27] yes, the sound caused them to tremble and cover their
[18:27] and a rumor that something was behind them
[18:27] What happened next?
[18:28] then the rohirrim rode through them
[18:28] and the weather?
[18:28] the sun broke through
[18:29] yes, "the sun flared above the eastern hills and
glimmered on their spears"
[18:29] And with the sun came?
[18:29] Trees in thd vale
[18:30] and Erkenbrand
[18:30] Erkenbrand and his riders
[18:31] the Battle of Helm's Deep was victorious! And what
happened to those poor Orcs?
[18:31] doom for the Orcs
[18:31] they got buried by the trees
[18:31] Yep, they ran in the wrong direction.
[18:31] by the trees?
[18:32] That is then end of the chapter of Helm's Deep. Does
anyone have any comment to make about this chapter?
[18:32] What were those trees, Grondy?
[18:32] er.. earlier on, Aragorn and Legolas go with Eomer in
[18:32] whats a van?
[18:33] van means front
[18:33] front part of the army
[18:33] or is it Huorn
[18:33] oh, ok
[18:34] I guess we would call it the advancing forces
[18:34] Huorn is correct
[18:35] I think they are mobile trees
[18:35] yes, they are the trees shephered by the tree shepherds
[18:36] yes, we will, Grondmaster.
[18:36] i best get reading then
[18:36] It seems to take an hour to discuss a chapter so we
may have to cut to 1 chapter a week.
[18:36] Thanks for the class Nell
[18:36] yeah, ty Nell
[18:36] Thanks for coming everyone.
End of #bilbos-study buffer Sun Oct 12 18:37:11 2003