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Bottom of Page    Message Board > Introduce yourself! > Odo   << [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] >>
Nazis and Numenor? Methinks someone is confusing allegory and applicability. <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />

I'm certainly not Wise though. I just remember much and read more. And I like thinking. <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
pettytyrant: to their credit, the people of Numenor were not totally corrupted by Sauron too quickly, even after centuries of resentment and condesencion had built up. I don't have my copy of The Silmarillion handy (I'm on a bus :P), but I believe Tolkien merely said that they were loved by the population in general. By the time of the Armada though, Sauron apparently felt confident enough to move against them.

If you like I can look for the exact quotations later when I am able. <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
To be honest Eldorion it was more an off the cuff comment to arouse the mighty Odo- but I am curious now myself and Silmarillion is one of the books I currently do not possess- tragic I know- but it would be interesting to see how much time passed before Saurons "captivity" on Numenor and his move against the Kings Men- as well as a rough idea of the sort of levels of support they enjoyed by that time. So if you get a moment and have the inclination please do furbish me with some solid stats and info (the potential for real debate on Odo's thread- he'll be furious!)
Darn right! You guys be careful! FactsI Stats! What's your caper? Tread carefully! I've thrown people off threads for less!
Poor Odo. :lol:

I don't have any exact statistics, and in fact I don't think any exist, but I will read through the Akallabeth again as soon as I can (later this afternoon, probably). I'll also check LotR: Appendix B.
You're close to the edge, Eldorion, I'm warning you!

(Btw, and just between you, me and the gatepost, I liked that comment of yours about [i:3pwimepj]applicability [/i:3pwimepj]and [i:3pwimepj]allegory [/i:3pwimepj]. But please don't let anyone else know I was impressed with your comment, it won't be good for my reputation you see - you know, being seen to tip my cap to anyone else on this forum, I [i:3pwimepj]am [/i:3pwimepj]Wise Odo all said and done...(and if a certain kilted chap finds out, he'll find some way to use it as ammunition against me. Oh he will! He's [i:3pwimepj]that[/i:3pwimepj] sort! I feel it in my waters!)
Thats a UTI you've got there Odo! Besides I only reside in the imagination of the reader.
Whatever the case - take this dicussion off my thread! It has no place here! :x

Wise Odo

[i:z0gzp4qj]Discussions! [/i:z0gzp4qj]Who'd have thought it? What will the younger generation come up with next :!: :?: :x
What then, pray tell, is [i:28euzutm]' UTI' [/i:28euzutm]? (Sounds supercilious, possibly imperinent, but I'll Wisely withold judgement).
Being back at home with just about all my books, I can take a bit closer look at the matter. <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />

We know from Appendix B that Sauron was brought to Numenor in S.A. 3262, the Great Armament began in 3310, and the Downfall in 3319. It does not, however, give a specific date for the corruption of Pharazon, grouping that mention with the rest of the annal for 3262. The Silmarillion, Akallabeth, however, tells us that after Sauron was brought to Numenor, "ere three years had passed he had become closest to the secret counsels of the King; for flattery sweet as honey was ever on his tongue, and knowledge he had of many things yet unrevealed to Men."

My reading of the text suggests that Pharazon turned to the worship of Melkor not long after this point, c. 3265; some 45 years before the Armament was begun. Sauron built a Temple to Melkor in the middle of Armenelos, capitol city of Numenor, and began a practice of human sacrifice there. As a close advisor to the King and leader of the new religion Sauron wielded enormous power. In fact, he was the power behind the throne in this last and most tyrannical phase of the Numenorean Empire, both in Numenor itself and across large coastal areas of Middle-earth.

Sometime in those 45 years Sauron saw to it that Amandil, father of Elendil, was dismissed from the King's council where he had sat, and Amandil withdrew to Romenna along with many of the other Elf-friends. Previously they had lived largely in the west, so the theory has been raised by some (including Helge Fauskanger of Ardalambion fame) that the Elf-friends were forcibly moved, possibly to slum areas. However, Amandil "was so noble, and had been so might a captain of the sea, that he was still held in honour by many of the people, and neither the King nor Sauron dared to lay hands as yet." He became a sort of unofficial leader of the Elf-friends in Romenna.

Not long after the Great Armament was begun in 3310, Amandil tried to sail west in an attempt to beg for help from the Valar. He did not return, and whether he was successful or not remains unknown, but the unofficial leadership of the Elf-friends passed to Elendil, who prepared them to flee Numenor if need be. When the Great Armament was about to leave Elendil was summoned to join it but he ignored the summons, and remained in Romenna. After the departure of the Armament he was almost arrested by the soldiers of Sauron to be sacrificed in the Temple, but he escaped and was not killed in the Downfall.

Throughout Sauron's time in Numenor he had played on the fear of death that pervaded Numenor. The party of the King's Men, led by the Kings of Numenor themselves, with the exception of one Tar-Palantir, had dominated the island for many centuries. They resented their mortality, envied the Eldar, and hated or disrespected the Valar. Sauron exacerbated these feelings and convinced Pharazon to build and launch the Armament against Valinor with the lie that by conquering Valinor the Numenoreans would have eternal life.

The party of the Elf-friends, to the contrary, accepted their mortality (even if they did not love it) and were persecuted by many of the later kings. Under Sauron that persecution increased significantly, and many were sacrificed in Sauron's Temple to Melkor. Amandil and Elendil were lucky to be high profile (coming from one of the oldest and most powerful noble families in the realm) and well-liked enough that it would be difficult to arrest them until the very end.

I hope this answers some of your questions. I really suggest getting a copy of The Silmarillion and reading it; it's full of great stories, and the Akallabeth is one of the best. :mrgreen:
This is what happens when you invite just anybody into your house!

Btw what you say reminds me of a certain epoch of modern history, though it might not be applicable, so I'll say no more.

Anyway, take your facts and figures and careful expositions somewhere else - this is [b:37p01l03]NOT[/b:37p01l03] [i:37p01l03]that [/i:37p01l03]kind iof thread! I commend GB here - his Origin of Hobbits is an excellent thread (but only if you like that kind of thing!)
Strangely enough, it reminds me not only of much of the 20th century, but also the first decade of the 21st (depending on the region one lives in <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ).

Well those are certainly facts- well done - incidentally Eldorion I said I do not currently have a copy of Silmarilian- not that I'd not read it- I just didn't want to work solely from memory given one or two folks about these parts are niggards for facts and stats. Oh incidentally Odo UTI stands for Uriney Tract Infection- see I was being flippant along! Do I get to stay in your house?
Not if you are going to be urinary!
fair point Odo- wouldn't want to mess up your place! But surely if flippancy has any meaning it can be found on the thread of the Wise Odo? Besides the problem was with your "waters" not mine. :lol:
The waters I was thinking of were different from what you were thinking, I see - but I guess it was an easy error to make.

You know, all this makes me wonder where I picked up this idea of [i:25txh767]'feeling things in one's waters'[/i:25txh767] in the first place. I think I heard something similar somewhere (no, not from Galadriel in the FotR Prologue) and it's silliness (perhaps only one aspect!) immediately attracted me. And [i:25txh767]Silliness[/i:25txh767], as you will be aware (if you've been paying attention) is the same thing to me as [i:25txh767]Wisdom[/i:25txh767]; at least it is on this thread.

Someone (probably GB, you know what he's like!) hinted that this thread might be for the Zen-minded, but if it is, I didn't mean it to be, and I apologize. I only hoped to attract the [i:25txh767]simple-minded[/i:25txh767] and the [i:25txh767]bird-brained[/i:25txh767] ...... Mmm..I'm wondering now - could it all be the same thing? (GB would know, you know. Did you know he's admitted to being a bird-brain? Wonderful chap, old GB! Wise - after a fashion - in his own way).
Apologies for the misunderstanding petty. I'm glad you liked it. <img src='/images/smileys/smile.gif' border='0' alt='Smile Smilie' />
Hail !! Wisest Odo !
I'll take your simple-minded reference as a personal invite to me and those of us who desire
only to delve into your Tolkien wisdom, if I may ?
Do you know any more about 'the mouth of Sauron'? I know theres not much in the LotR
and although I've looked elswhere, I don't recall any other information about him coming
up. Perhaps you'd care to speculate as to his origins ? If not, how about your opinion of
his appearance in the ext dvd ?

Hail !!
Bruce Spence Rocks :mrgreen: !!!!

The Holy Fool is closer to the Tao than the Monk--that's Zen for ya.

Is the Nun closer to the Tao than the Monk is, GB?

I've looked within but can't seem to find the answer to that.

Maybe it's more up your channel than mine?

(And should this go on the Feminism thread?)
Up to you, this is the Odo thread.

Ah! It's [i:1oix90xn]my [/i:1oix90xn]thread now is it? Not [i:1oix90xn]balking[/i:1oix90xn] at the question, GB are you? Not getting a bit [i:1oix90xn]weak[/i:1oix90xn]-kneed? Is it a bit [i:1oix90xn]too[/i:1oix90xn] tricky for you?

I only hope this has been a lesson for you, GB. After all, I am here to enlighten folk, and sometimes that might require me having to be cruel to be kind (even on this inoffensive thread).

The answer is:

Well then, in my estimation, Gender doesn't necessarily come into it. The Tao simply is the Tao. And any Monk or Nun can spend a lifetime hoping to understand it, yet a Simpleton can grasp it's Truth without even trying.

The Tao does not discriminate, it is most apparent when one is not Actively seeking to understand it, but simply let's go and just Feels it.

Well, I guess the Tao must be wrong then. I suspected as much.
I sit. I think. Tao-like, I stop thinking. That’s when the vision comes.

I am with the Elvish forces outside the walls of Dol Guldur. There are lot of dark gnarled old trees. And Gandalf, Galadriel, Legolas, Aragorn and about forty thousand CGI Elves on a blue screen are there too. I’m on a movie set! (This vision is so clear it seems real!)

I see The Mouth of Sauron - or an actor playing him. Hey! He looks remarkably like Odo Banks! Anyhow, he’s up on top of the wall. An imposing figure he is, but he’s probably a bit too handsome to play The Mouth. Never mind. He looks a fine actor! Maybe this is just a rehearsal. My goodness! They’ll need a lot of make-up to make him look ugly!

[i:2o445erl]Shush![/i:2o445erl] He’s saying something. I now hearken with all the power of my deepest heark. Ah! The Mouth is mouthing something...

Mouth: “Oh go away, you silly people! I fart in your general direction!” (He’s real sarcastic like and speaks with a Numenorean accent. Wonderful bit of acting; so realistic).

Gandalf: “I’ll come up there in a minute, you vulgar person. Just see if I don’t!” [Puts hand on the hilt of Glamdring which glows bluely through the sheath. It’s Ian McKellen at his brilliant best]. “I’ll pull down your breeches and spank you oh so hard!”

Mouth: “You and what Elvish army? Oh that one...! Anyhow, go away with you, you cowardly old dandy lion. If you come up here, you’ll wilt in the face of my Master’s Black Breath. It’s pretty nasty, you know. I bet you're too chicken to come up anyway, you wizened old wizard! Sauron... whoops – my mysterious unnamed Master will pluck off your petals, just see if he doesn’t!” [Unseen folk snigger in background, some with Numenorean accents].

Gandalf: “Oh enough of this nonsense! Bring forth the battering rams.... and some of those shield-like skateboards for the younger Elves!” [He whispers to Legolas who stands close by]: “Looks like you’ll be getting some practice in, Leggy,” [canned laughter] “Your skill might come in handy sixty years or so from now, you just never know!” [More canned laughter as Gandalf looks knowingly at camera].

Legolas [anxiously]: “Could be risky, Gandalf. I’ve still got a tingly finger after last night. I might not be able to slide up into that dank and lightless place!”

Galadriel [with the remnant light of Valinor shining in her eyes]: “That’s not what you said last night, oh sweet blond elf from the Murky Green Wood!”

Legolas now has that silly stunned bemused look on his face, the one he always seems to wear in the LotR movies.

Meanwhile, behind him on the blue screen the Elves shake their shields and pitch-forks in readiness for the assault.

Meanwhile, up on the battlements The Mouth turns to a mysterious unnamed shadowy person who is standing with the Witch King of Angmar’s little brother - whispers urgently: “Oh my goodness! I hope you remembered to unlock the back door, Master! The enemy has shield-like skateboards!”

Everything goes dark, foggy. And then the light comes and I, Wise Odo, am back in my lounge-room watching the Simpsons.

My goodness.... it all seems so obvious now.... So [i:2o445erl]that's[/i:2o445erl] how The Mouth gets into The Hobbit!

PJ was clever but Del Toro’s a genius!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: 8-)

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm sure I read somewhere that this thread was for simpletons, (or fool in my case if you prefer GB. Not bitter btw)
to benefit from the great Odo's wisdom regarding Tolkien ! For me that means 'dangling at his tail' and hoping
for information !
: 'For one thing, in that position one has a chance of putting a question a second time'.

The Mouth of Sauron, who is he ? Is there a theory about him that you'd kindly share ? Would it have been he who
went to see the dwarves as mentioned in the council ?
Apologies if the question is a bit dumb... I guess I am a bit dumb !!

Hail !!
Sorry, lad, I got a bit carried away with my vision of the upcoming movie but I haven't forgotten your questions. (My vision, as mentioned above, was actually partly inspired by them!) But now to the questions in hand (your questions in fact).

First, a digression and an explanation. As you know I tend to rely on intuition, imagination and a certain amount of channeling when I compile my Definitive Answers, and if I draw on my memory of sources, they are usually Monty Python, Jack Vance and sometimes even Tolkien, though even here I can't be sure. A lot of funny stuff swirls around in my mind! I utilize an arbitrary process, I'm afraid, and sometimes things don't come immediately. But as to your request for [i:3bfdwra5]actual [/i:3bfdwra5]information, and I assume [i:3bfdwra5]useful[/i:3bfdwra5] information... well, what ekes from my brain and onto this thread is whatever my mind leaks out at the time of writing...the information might be useful... you never know...

Anyhow, now that I am being (gently) pressed, here goes...

[i:3bfdwra5]The Mouth of Sauron, who is he ? [/i:3bfdwra5]
He's a man of some sort, though degraded almost of all humanity. A Numenorean to boot. I think this is suggested even in the LotR. I'm not a hundred percent sure about this, as I try not to rely on texts on this thread. (That reliance I leave with Loremasters, Beards, Physicists and a certain Scot, among others of course. There's plenty of those educated types on this Forum. I mainly leave that kind of thing to them).

[i:3bfdwra5]Is there a theory about him that you'd kindly share?[/i:3bfdwra5]
I think he is a man who turned bad under the influence of Sauron and became so gnawed by ever-present evil that he forgot his own name, subsuming his very identity within the confines of Sauron's dominating will.

[i:3bfdwra5]Would it have been he who went to see the dwarves as mentioned in the council?[/i:3bfdwra5]
It's possible. You may be right. As the Mouth of Sauron he does sound like an Emissary. It makes sense that Sauron would send a trusted servant, and not someone as evil and disembodied as a Ring-wraith on a [i:3bfdwra5]friendly [/i:3bfdwra5]embassy, though he had other evil men at his call. (You're no simpleton, Hail, you could well be on the money about him. Fits well).

[i:3bfdwra5]Apologies if the question is a bit dumb... I guess I am a bit dumb !![/i:3bfdwra5]
No, no - your questions are sound - they're not like some other questions I've been asked. And if you are dumb, it will only be in the Taoist sense as propounded by GB. To him the dumber you are, the wiser you are. (At least, I think that's what he's getting at. Hard to tell with GB!)

I hope this helps.

Wise Odo

NB You must have got me at a bad moment... I don't think I hardly questioned your intelligence... which is not like me... I'm coming off night-shift.... probably not myself...
Interesting point on The Mouth, Hail Manwe- I'd never considered him as the one sent to the Lonely Mountain but agree with Odo- it makes sense.
Heres one for you Odo, I was rereading tale of Aragorn and Arwen and it occured there's a lot of foresight going on in it. Aragorn's mum, Arwen, Elrond and indeed Aragorn himself all seem to have a sense that things are drawing to a head- in particular Elrond seems to have a strong sense that the elves will be leaving soonish and Aragorn will have his shot at being King. Now as all this rather relies on the Ring popping back up this would imply the Wise seemed to think it was due to make a return but just didnt know exactly where and when. But if so it does make dear old Gandalf seem more than a litle slow to equate Bilbo's find when it happens with the One Ring. Again the Wise don't seem to Wise! What do you think esteemed Odo?
Wise Odo, most gracious host. One could ask for no more ! Many thanks.

As to your vision, jokes aside, I must say you have greatly excited me at the mere possibility
of an appearance by 'the mouth' in The Hobbit ! That's exactly what I hope will happen ! If he
does I hope they will at least give him a deliciously evil name ! The Dol Guldur scene will be pretty much
down to GDT & PJ and Sauron will have to be represented in some way after all. Enter, 'The Mouth' !! Brilliance !

Hail !!
An actual appearance of The Mouth in the Hobbit Movie is exactly what I [b:3u1cfg74][i:3u1cfg74]don't [/i:3u1cfg74][/b:3u1cfg74]want, Hail :!: :!:

Mind, if Odo Banks gets the part, I might reconsider my position on this... Great actor that Odo Banks! Can turn the [i:3u1cfg74]ridiculous [/i:3u1cfg74]into the [i:3u1cfg74]sublime[/i:3u1cfg74]! Amazing to think that a Stoor from Rushrock Bog (below Needlehole) could play a tall and evil Numenorean - versatility, what! He's better than Johnny Depp apparently, but who am I to say? Very subjective, all this, more up GB's street than mine...

And Mr Tyrant... I am taking the unusual recourse of reading Aragorn and Arwen with a view to tackling your question. I know this contradicts my usual method - but this my thread, so [i:3u1cfg74]there[/i:3u1cfg74]! [A 'blows raspberry' [b:3u1cfg74][i:3u1cfg74]Smilie [/i:3u1cfg74][/b:3u1cfg74]would be useful just now!] (Actually, I'm a bit worried that Hail Manwe has tricked me somehow into becoming a quasi-Loremaster, and I suppose I'm a bit rattled just now... [i:3u1cfg74]pseudo[/i:3u1cfg74]-Loremaster does seem to sit better with me...).
You mean a smilie like this one?: :P

Oh GB. You've made me feel stupid! I never realized a razz was the same as a raspberry! :oops:

Ah! Mr Tyrant [i:1164gwd1]as things turn out [/i:1164gwd1] everything turns on the [i:1164gwd1]finding [/i:1164gwd1]of the Ring, not on any [i:1164gwd1]prediction [/i:1164gwd1]as such of finding the Ring! All the Wise Ones could read the signs of the time. The Shadow was growing. This was obvious to the Wise. The diminishing of the Elves does not really seem to be linked to the Ring in the minds of the Wise. It was more to the continuing Rise of Man. Only later does the Ring's finding become an [i:1164gwd1]agent[/i:1164gwd1] of this inevitable change in the fabric of Middle-earth, the further [i:1164gwd1]diminishing[/i:1164gwd1] of Elves. Your hints are right, the Wise don't know everything.

(I know these waters might be muddied by that bit of verse about Isildur's Bane. But who coined it? Who actually made the prophecy? Even Wise Odo doesn't know that! Maybe only Tolkien [i:1164gwd1]did[/i:1164gwd1]! Oh my goodness! Maybe even Tolkien [i:1164gwd1]didn't[/i:1164gwd1]...)

Wise Odo
Goodness, Eldo or I couldn't have said it better ourselves <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> .

Sorry, GB, I don't know what's got into me lately... tired, I guess, from being on night-shift. I'm confident that I'll be back to normal after I've had a decent sleep... promise... <img src='/images/smileys/vevil.gif' border='0' alt='Very Evil Smilie' />
Wow! I made Odo the Wise go and look up FACTS! Do I win a prize?
Although sadly I'm not sure I'm convinced. Elrond says to a young Aragorn;

"A great doom awaits you, either to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil, or fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin." and later he says "She (Arwen) shall not be the bride of any Man less then the King of both Gondor and Arnor. To me then even our victory can bring only sorrow."

So either Elrond deeply suspected the Rings re-emerging in the world or he thought Aragorn would have a go at taking on the Dark Lord without the Rings reappearance- which doesn't make much sense as the Wise knew Sauron could never be destroyed so long as the Ring still existed and besides if all it took was one of the line of Isildur 'having a go' why did none of Aragorn's predecessors have a shot at it? Why remain hidden all those years if it was not to await the Rings appearance?
I really don't like the way my thread is going, but as I haven't caught on my sleep, I'll continue on as I have been lately....

Dear Mr Tyrant. If the Ring was never found, Sauron was almost cetainly going to prevail. Elrond sensed (if I can put it that way) that Aragorn might yet find a way to lead Men to victory. The Ring turning up saved Man's arse in the end (tee-hee [i:2iepxnty]'arse' [/i:2iepxnty]in the '[i:2iepxnty]end' [/i:2iepxnty]tee hee!) and Aragorn's heroic leadership did play a part - but it was Sam and Frodo and Smeagol who between them got the ring destroyed!

So, to cut to the quick, Elrond could prophesy [i:2iepxnty]greatness [/i:2iepxnty]for Aragorn without necessarily tying it immediately to the Ring. Elrond only [i:2iepxnty]feared[/i:2iepxnty] Sauron would find the Ring. That means no direct tie between Aragorn's [i:2iepxnty]great doom[/i:2iepxnty] and the Ring in Elrond's prophecy.

Hmmm, that's true Petty. But that isn't--strictly speaking--necessarily contrary to Odo's point. The Elves didn't have a "Prophecy" foretelling events per se. Rather, they are proficient at reading signs and future probabilities. And foreseeing possible futures that included the destruction of Sauron and the Ring or Sauron's prevailing with the Ring would be well within Elrond's (and Galadriel's and Gandalf's) grasp, though it certainly was not set in stone.

Still not convinced dear Odo- I think the Wise may have been caught with their pants down as it were on this one and were not being very Wise. after all still doesn't explain why the line of Isildur would have waited till Aragorn came along- if the Wise thought there was a chance of victory with just Men led by the heir, sensible thing would have been to do it years before when Sauron was not so strong surely? But I will defer to your greater wisdom and knowledge for now- well till GB or Eldo post <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' />
Sorry GB- must have posted that last one at same time as you so hadn't read your input first. Good points, but not sure it helps the case for the Wise- if certain people could foresee possible, potential outcomes from doing the elvish equivalent of reading the tea leaves then that makes Gandalf look a bit slack in connecting the dots. Impression I got from Shadow of the Past in particular is that the Wise had largely accepted Saruman's view- that the Ring had been long since rolled down into the sea and was not coming back, which explains why Gandalf wasn't more suss when Bilbo found it- but if the Wise such as Elrond were foreseeing possible imminent futures with the Ring in it and all it might mean for Aragorn then Gandalf seems a tad slack in taking more than half a century to put it together- especially as magic rings don't seem all that common and given Bilbo's suspicious behaviour upon discovering it and then covering up how.
I grant none of the Wise had a definitive view of the future but they certainly seem to have had strong suspicions and you'd think they'd at least have been on the alert for any suspicious magic rings popping up.
...[i:kxq0o2p0]'pants down' [/i:kxq0o2p0]tee-hee!

As to rings (tee-hee-hee!) there seem to have been a few.

One could easily think that all men and elves had one (tee-hee-hee-hee!) what with all the rings (ho-ho-hee!) in Middle-earth.

Remember, we don't have to limit them to the One and the Three and the Seven and the Nine. There might have been hundreds (hundreds of thousands if every man and elf had his own ring - ho-hee-ho-hee-hee-hee!) in Middle-earth.

Obviously, many of them were lesser rings (even hobbit-sized ones..? hee-hee-hee!) and these would not have played such an important role in events, and of course had limited magic powers - including the power to make one invisible while [i:kxq0o2p0][b:kxq0o2p0]NOT [/b:kxq0o2p0][/i:kxq0o2p0]being the [b:kxq0o2p0]One [/b:kxq0o2p0]Ring of Sauron (the [b:kxq0o2p0]One[/b:kxq0o2p0] that got bigger or smaller depending on circumstances - tee-hee-hee....!)

So the Wise might have been fooled as easily as the Not-so-Wise in the [b:kxq0o2p0][i:kxq0o2p0]end[/i:kxq0o2p0][/b:kxq0o2p0] (oh I must stop! I really must!)

Wise Odo

Ah! I feel I'm recovering already.... back to my normal self....
Good to see you've recovered you full...erm..wisdom Odo. But on what you say the fact Bilbo found a Ring which happened to fit a hobbit would have been suss enough!
Odo's point is very apt (even if over-the-top). While the One Ring was a one of a kind, there were numerous other Magic Rings in Middle Earth. Enough that Gandalf might only have vague misgivings, without further evidence of the Ring's pedigree. It was only after seeing how Bilbo hadn't aged during a lengthy period of his absence that put Gandalf's suspicions into overdrive.

And to think I was only trying to make a lot of ring jokes - well, only [i:mkfxjtuq]one [/i:mkfxjtuq]ring joke really.... Hey! Only [i:mkfxjtuq][b:mkfxjtuq]one ring [/b:mkfxjtuq][/i:mkfxjtuq]joke! Spooky! (I just don't where it comes from, it's a gift!)
Fair point GB but I still think it was a bit lax of Gandalf not to have checked it out in light of what the Wise seemed to be "feeling in their waters" to borrow Odo's phrase, with regards the near future. Magic Rings in general, aside from the 7,9 and 3, might have been more common but they don't seem to turn up all the time either, surely in such potentially dangerous times it was the duty of the Wise to check out any magic ring which made an appearance just in case.Presumably there was nothing to have stopped Gandalf doing a bit of research, as he later did, turning up Isildurs scroll, popping back to Bilbo bunging it in the fire and going "Bloody hell its the One Ring." Although admittedly this would have somewhat have knackered the LoTR story!
It is a gift indeed you have Odo, although of what sort and granted by whom is another matter altogether <img src='/images/smileys/bigsmile.gif' border='0' alt='Big Smile Smilie' />
You realize Mr Tyrant if you keep pushing these boundaries, you'll begin to doubt if Tolkien was really a Historian of the [i:1p31j6pw]Real [/i:1p31j6pw]world... Having just read the Aragorn and Arwen bit in the Appendixes I discovered at least one... well, [i:1p31j6pw]oddity... [/i:1p31j6pw]I can't bring myself to say [i:1p31j6pw]inanity... [/i:1p31j6pw]no don't make me go that far... Take care! Less you lose the Faith!
I know Odo! The possibility I may have found a gaping flaw in my beloved LoTR is killing me- I'm hoping someone will come up with something to convince me I'm wrong! Its a bit like when you've got a really sore tooth and you know poking at it with your tongue will only make it worse but you just can't resist! Help! I'm going to bed to weep and pray to the ghost of Tolkien for forgiveness.
Wisdom and sleep, in this case, go hand in hand!

Wise Odo
Oh Wise Odo.
Thanks for your reply.
There I go 'waxing' all enthusiastic about possible changes for the new films when I should have
known you'd be horrified at any such thing ! On your own thread too ! Shame on me !

I guess it comes from me accepting that it's inevitable and they carry on regardless in pursuit
of the mighty buck !
But, Quasi-Odo ??

Hail !!
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