Oh valar...!
It's...FANTASTIC!!!!
I like it! I think Leggy is like his mother...except of his blond hair! 
Thread: The Elves
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Oh my goodness!!!!
Oh valar...!
It's...FANTASTIC!!!! I like it! I think Leggy is like his mother...except of his blond hair!
Oh valar...!
It's...FANTASTIC!!!!
I like it! I think Leggy is like his mother...except of his blond hair! 
.... Ah! Reading my posts on this thread is like opening a door into a Wiser past! Clearly my family were tutuored by the Elves!
Mind you, all said and done, the Elves in the Silmarillion were quite thick - and arrogant to boot. (Not unlike Americans according to the view of certain - slightly treasonous - Americans on this forum! 
)
Mind you, all said and done, the Elves in the Silmarillion were quite thick - and arrogant to boot. (Not unlike Americans according to the view of certain - slightly treasonous - Americans on this forum! )
Well from a euro-centric viewpoint (as Tolkien's was) America is in the West and you have to sail to get there.
I can assure you, Valinor is most certainly NOT in America.
[b:uwdgswgi]GB[/b:uwdgswgi]
[b:uwdgswgi]GB[/b:uwdgswgi]For the most part no. But apparently Tolkien later revised his conception of Elves to have three stages of immortal life to explain a couple of exceptions to the "Beardless Elf" rule.
[quote:17a8w4vu]"The third cycle of life," aging, and facial hair
Despite Tolkien's statements in The Hobbit that Elves (and Hobbits) have no beards, C’rdan in fact has a beard, which appears to be an anomaly and a simple oversight. However, Tolkien later devised at least three "cycles of life" for Elves around 1960; C’rdan had a beard because he was in his third cycle of life. (Mahtan, Nerdanel's father, had a beard in his second cycle of life, a rare phenomenon.) It is unclear what these cycles exactly are, since Tolkien left no notes further explaining this. Apparently, beards were the only sign of further natural physical ageing beyond maturity.
Nevertheless, Tolkien may have ultimately changed his mind about whether Elves had facial hair. As Christopher Tolkien states in Unfinished Tales, his father wrote in December 1972 or later that the Elvish strain in Men, such as Aragorn, was "observable in the beardlessness of those who were so descended", since "it was a characteristic of all Elves to be beardless".[19] This would seemingly contradict the information above.
Elves sometimes appear to age under great stress. C’rdan appeared to be aged himself, since he is described as looking old, save for the stars in his eyes; this may be due to all the sorrows he had seen and lived through since the First Age. Also, the people of Gwindor of Nargothrond had trouble recognizing him after his time as a prisoner of Morgoth.
[/quote:17a8w4vu]
If I said it once, I said it a hundred times! Are you on a repeater, GB?
Are you on a repeater, GB? Do elves have beards?
Thanks for that info GB, always wondered why Cirdan had a beard, now I know 
Looks about time I read LotR again!! 
Cirdan had a beard! 
Cirdan had a beard! [quote="Odo Banks":2p8gqq3s]Looks about time I read LotR again!! Cirdan had a beard! [/quote:2p8gqq3s]
Call yourself a respectable Purist, hm?
Cirdan had a beard! [/quote:2p8gqq3s]
Call yourself a respectable Purist, hm? I am a Purist (to a point! ) but I don't know every detail. Also, I hope you noticed that I did say I'm a reader of the whole not a Loremaster (or cherry picker! ) (((Ha-ha, I have confounded [i:1spe9c8g]Them[/i:1spe9c8g] again! 
)))
) but I don't know every detail. Also, I hope you noticed that I did say I'm a reader of the whole not a Loremaster (or cherry picker! ) (((Ha-ha, I have confounded [i:1spe9c8g]Them[/i:1spe9c8g] again! )))Well, I too am a reader of the whole, never picked a cherry in my life! See, we're not all that different!
Oh no, I'm different alright. Mind you, every human being I've ever met is [i:1lv1wtmi]different[/i:1lv1wtmi] in their own inimical style! As to the best way to read LotR, I've never suggested there is a best way. If one wants to read it as the mood takes one, I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with it. I might, of course, do a bit of teasing though - it is an Australian trait to be a stirrer. No harm is ever meant - not by me anyway. As to this discussion, I have been serious the whole time - well, most of the time - err - at least a fair bit of the time...
I've been thinking about the Elves and their singing in The Hobbit. What if the Elves sang their Rivendell greeting song in Elvish? Would it then be joyous but not, as it seems to be in some people's minds, [i:dxa243lg]silly[/i:dxa243lg] in any way? 
The only reason it wouldn't be silly, is that you would have no idea what they were singing about...but yes sir, It would be joyous!
[quote="Odo Banks":25jxjjpp]I've been thinking about the Elves and their singing in The Hobbit. What if the Elves sang their Rivendell greeting song in Elvish? Would it then be joyous but not, as it seems to be in some people's minds, [i:25jxjjpp]silly[/i:25jxjjpp] in any way? [/quote:25jxjjpp]
I totally agree with this Odo. I think it is by far the best solution. Sometimes you're a genius (when you think like me 
).
[b:25jxjjpp]GB[/b:25jxjjpp]
[/quote:25jxjjpp]
I totally agree with this Odo. I think it is by far the best solution. Sometimes you're a genius (when you think like me ).
[b:25jxjjpp]GB[/b:25jxjjpp]Yeah, definitely the best solution. That way, you're free to think they're singing about whatever you'd like them to sing about and everyone gets pleased
I remember this coming back before, and it's probably the best compromise between two sides. I can't imagine PJ really even considering the original songs, though.
PJ using actual material sourced from the book? Don't be silly Eldo of course he won't.
Don't be silly Eldo of course he won't.
[quote="Odo Banks":3p8gngyf]I've been thinking about the Elves and their singing in The Hobbit. What if the Elves sang their Rivendell greeting song in Elvish? Would it then be joyous but not, as it seems to be in some people's minds, [i:3p8gngyf]silly[/i:3p8gngyf] in any way? [/quote:3p8gngyf]
I think it would only come across as silly if the balance was lost that this is a movie based on a book written for kids. I think the silly elvish songs are a good barometer as to whether the films are taking themselves too seriously as adult pre epics. Hope this is understood and not misunderstood.
[/quote:3p8gngyf]
I think it would only come across as silly if the balance was lost that this is a movie based on a book written for kids. I think the silly elvish songs are a good barometer as to whether the films are taking themselves too seriously as adult pre epics. Hope this is understood and not misunderstood.On the balance of evidence so far it does not look like we are getting an adaption of a childrens story. This is shaping into something else. I'll be surprised at this rate if we get Stone Giants and talking purses let alone the orginal songs. And there are talking birds in TH. There were in LotR too until PJ got hold of it- if he didn't think talking eagles fitted his vision of LotR how is he going to keep such things in TH when he is blending the two books so closely together?
I expect there to be plenty of fun for everyone in the films. 
[b:263424bn]GB[/b:263424bn]
[b:263424bn]GB[/b:263424bn]You really think PJ will pitch this film at the 8-14 year old market like the book?
[quote="pettytyrant101":2k85z7tw]You really think PJ will pitch this film at the 8-14 year old market like the book?[/quote:2k85z7tw]
I expect PJ to aim for 8-80 year olds Petty.
As I've said since before this forum was a twinkle in Ady's Eye, the Model for this film should be Time Bandits. The sort of film that at first glance looks like a kid's movie, but is edgy and epic enough that adults won't fall asleep.
[b:2k85z7tw]GB[/b:2k85z7tw]
As I've said since before this forum was a twinkle in Ady's Eye, the Model for this film should be Time Bandits. The sort of film that at first glance looks like a kid's movie, but is edgy and epic enough that adults won't fall asleep.
[b:2k85z7tw]GB[/b:2k85z7tw]I'd like to think it'd be that way GB- it should be. Time Bandits is an old favourite of mine and is perfectly pitched. Not convinced PJ could pull it off though without getting distracted along the way by shiny things.
You're probably half-right. I think it will be part Time Bandits until it get's to the White Council Stuff.
[b:3rxf04s7]GB[/b:3rxf04s7]So we can watch the first half of the movie but (sadly) not watch the second... Is that your advice, GB?
* keep in mind that kids are watching PG13 movies much younger before they are 13*
I'm just anxious for a trailer. Then we'll at lease be able to make reasonable assumptions of what its like
I hadn't even begun to think of trailers! I can't imagine one coming out for at least a year or so since filming hasn't even begun yet. Hopefully we'll get updates from the film-makers before then, though.
I can't imagine one coming out for at least a year or so since filming hasn't even begun yet. Hopefully we'll get updates from the film-makers before then, though.Or at least pictures!!! THEY owe us that much...
There have been some pictures of the Hobbiton set that is being rebuilt, but I'm sure that there will be more to come once filming has begun. I expect they'll want publicity for production, especially since years of development hell has led to apathy in many fans.
Yes, I wish they'd just get the whole horrid business over and done with... I think I'm becoming addicted to the anti-depressants! 
I quite agree, just wish they would get on with it. I'm fed up hating and despising rumours- I want something concrete to get properly worked up about!
For those of you who have not read the Silmarillion I highly suggest that you do. It is the history of the Elves and explains the difference between the Elves of Light (those who went to the West and who saw the light of the trees before the Sun & the Moon rose) and the Dark Elves (those who didn't go West). There is a huge difference between these Elves (and the many variants in between). Think of the difference between Galadrial and Legolas. The Elves of light have advanced powers of mind and many other skills which could only have been learned in the West. The Elves of Mirkwood are mostly Dark Elves and therefor will behave very differently to those we saw in the LOTR.
By the way Elves are not magical, they seem it to mortals because there powers of mind cannot be easily understood.
I for one loved the way the Elves were portrayed in the films, yes PJ went slightly overboard with Legolas, however the Culture and Majesty of the Elves, the architecture, clothing etc etc was handled exactly the way I imagined them when I first read any of the Professors works.
Just saw the interview with Evangeline Lilly, of Lost fame, speaking (albeit badly as she is put on the spot) a couple of lines of Sindarin. Go to The One Ring. net to see. I didnt realise how beautiful she is as I never watched Lost. She plays an Elf called Tauriel and she must have some form of importance within the court of Thranduil as one of the lines she recounts is something like "The Cells are empty" obviously reporting the fact that the Dwarves had escaped Thranduil's dungeons......
Mmmm another old thread which Im sure newbies will be talking about in about 11 months time. Added character Tauriel. I'm glad PJ has added a female character. He managed to squeeze in a couple of female Elves in AUJ. Lets all hope that we get to explore the Dark Elves and the differences between them and The Elves of Light, who we are all so familiar with in the Films so far.
So what do you think well see?
We've seen Thranduil on his Stag, which I loved. Very serious looking and resplendent in his fabulous crown. What will the others look like? What will Thranduils halls look like?
I saw, and liked, Alan Lee's artwork of Thranduil on his beast.
Is it named in the films?
I don't think so Galin. However he is rather huge and magnificent. We only catch a quick glimpse, possibly two. We see Thranduil twice in film 1. Once visiting Thror's court in Erebor, and once on top of a cliff looking down on the Desolation of Smaug and the escaping Dwarf survivors.
Thanks Brego.
I'll probably find a screen shot soon enough so I can see how the Lee art looks on film, so to speak.
I know we arnt allowed links so.....
Picture search Thranduil Stag and you'll find a couple.
Ah I did find one Brego... it's a bit dark (the picture) overall but the animal is majestic looking.
Of course deer always seem noble and regal to me anyway. I'll keep an eye out for more screen shots.
Brego, I think the elves of Mirkwood will probably be similar to those of Lorien. After all they share the same ancestry. One dwells on the trees, the other underneath the trees. Obviously there are many other differences.
One big difference though Glorfinel is that Lorien was held within the power of timelessness of Galadriel's ring and also had the greatest and oldest remaining Elf of light as its Queen, Galadriel herself. As well as her age and wealth of experience Galadriel was also taught and possibly lent power by Queen Melian the Maia during her Ages on Earth.
The Elves of Greenwood of course as far as Men were concerned were powerful and majestic, however cannot be compared to those of Galadriel's kingdom.
I think we will see a far less mystical and far more Earth based people.
Just a question but Galadriel was born in Arda or Valinor but was she a Valar or just a powerful Elf she seems to have a special connection to Gandalf almost love really i cant help but wonder if they are the same?
Galadriel was an Elf born in the Undying Lands who came to Middle-earth as a leader (one of the leaders) of the Exiled Noldor and fell in love with the Sindarin Elf Celeborn, and married him.
As for special relationships, JRR Tolkien notes that Galadriel and Melian had one 
Oh and welcome!
She is just an elf but came from valinor. Seeing the light of the 2 trees just made her more powerful than those that had not seen the lights.
The Hobbit (book) also reveals that the subjects of the Elven King of Mirkwood mostly lived and hunted in the open woods, and had houses or huts on the ground and in the branches.
Beeches were their favorite trees. The King's cave was his palace, the strong place of his treasure, and the fortress of his people against their enemies. And the dungeon of his prisoners.
So as we see, perhaps the Elves of Mirwood were, shall we say less refined and more mortal like than the Elves of Lorien who were taught the ways of The Noldor via Galdriel.
One big difference though Glorfinel is that Lorien was held within the power of timelessness of Galadriel's ring and also had the greatest and oldest remaining Elf of light as its Queen, Galadriel herself.
Actually, Galadriel was never Queen of Lorien. Even though the land was protected and preserved by the power of the ring and being rule by Galadriel, I dont't think the people changed much from before her rule.
The Elves of Greenwood of course as far as Men were concerned were powerful and majestic, however cannot be compared to those of Galadriel's kingdom.
The two elves were of the same ancestry so one couldn't be more powerful and majestic than the other. Galadriel was the only Light elf in Lorien where as the rest are Dark elves like most of the elves west of the Misty Mountains during the third age. The two different clan of elves may different in culture, but when it comes to power majestic, they are similar.
If I recall correctly one of the characters in The Lord of the Rings (books) refers to Galadriel as Queen of Lorien, and she is referred to as a Queen in Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age (although this wasn't published by Tolkien himself)...
... despite that JRRT elsewhere wrote that Galadriel took no such title. Also we have more Noldor in Lorien than just Galadriel:
'The People of Lórien were [...] Silvan Elves in origin, but ruled by princes of Sindarin descent […] They had however been much mingled with Noldor (of Sindarin speech), who passed through Moria after the destruction of Eregion by Sauron in the year 1697 of the Second Age...'
JRRT Unfinished Tales
However it remains that most of the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien were East-elves, as this source is The Lord of the Rings. Of Oropher, father of Thranduil, Tolkien noted:
'Oropher had come among them with only a handful of Sindar, and they were soon merged with the Silvan Elves, adopting their language and taking names of Silvan form and style. This they did deliberately; for they (...) came from Doriath after its ruin and had no desire to leave Middle-earth, nor to be merged with the other Sindar of Beleriand, dominated by the Noldorin Exiles for whom the folk of Doriath had no great love. They wished indeed to become Silvan folk and to return, as they said, to the simple life natural to the Elves before the invitation of the Valar had disturbed it.'
The History of Galadriel And Celeborn, Appendix B
In another late note, when Tolkien is talking about the Silvan Elves in general, he describes:
'Under the leadership of these [migrating Noldor and Sindar] they [the Silvan Elves] became again ordered folk and increased in wisdom. Thranduil...'
The History of Galadriel And Celeborn, Appendix A
Since that's a general description I'm not sure how it's intended to fit with the text about Oropher. If it's intended to fit with it, that is.
