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Thread: The Most Long Lived Man

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So if it is possible he was the oldest living MAN and men only lived so many years, not many in the big picture would he have not had to have been half elven at one point in order to make a choice to stay a man and thus the long life.Or did Sauron have the ability to keep him living, and if so would that not negate his being a man, would he not have been diminished into a wraith type of being


This wasn't a choice or Iluvatar problem, this was an anomaly. The Mouth of Sauron was just a man and Sauron probably augmented his lifespan with some magics, but who calls that living. Anyway, he was only a minor bit player and Tolkien never gave him more than those few lines in the RotK and didn't have an inkling that we fans would be wasting our time worrying about the Mouth's biography. If he had, I'm sure he would have deleted a few words or added a few more in order to not keep us awake in the wee small hours worrying about this non-problem. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Yes of course you are right. It is a wee tiny thing after all.
But as to it wasting our time Smile Smilie, perhaps dear Ronald would smile and see how much we are his children, for I think he sat up more than a night or two worrying over the smallest trifle.
I for one don't spend as much time on my own geneology!
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Leelee
I for one don't spend as much time on my own geneology!

Join the club! Smile Smilie

I thought of a new nomination for longest living man, if you could call him a man...

Smeagol/Gollum, true he was really a hobbit and he had help from the ring, but he was still technically mortal. He found the ring TA 2463 and he perished TA 3019. The Encyclopedia of Arda says Smeagol was around the age of 25 when he came across the ring and give him a birth date of TA 2440. Which means he was about 579 years old! give or take a couple years at the most.

I'm starting to wonder how we can consider the Mouth of Sauron one of the longest living men, since there is no actual record, or even a remote record, of his birth. It says...
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ROTK P.191
And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again...

Which was TA 2951 only 68 years prior to the defeat of Sauron. I couldn't find any more information concerning MOuth of Sauron prior to that date.
I think with Men in this thread, one meant the race of Edain, in particular the descendants of the Houses of Hador, Haleth and Ber.

Hobbits & River people are related to Men, but are not Men.

There is another issue, though : Tar-Minyatur was the longest living man with 500 years under his belt/shroud, but does this mean that in Arda men live longer than women? Because wives usually outlive their men (usually to causing heart attacks, ulcers and putting poison in their spouses' food, and what not), why didn't Tolkien take this into account?

It may well be that Ms Tar-Minyatur, the Witch-Queen of Armenelos, was the longest living amongst the race of Men.
It's not the fact that woman can out live men, it all comes down to that we just want peace and quite and give up life before 'our better halfs'.
hmmm, women poisening their spouses food eh? You know over the years the only actual cases I have read about,arsenic mainly, over a period of time were actually poisenings done by men to their wives who all died.
Grondy dear, this time machine that you just plug in, I was wondering,.......if the parts go, just where do you get it serviced......and can one rent out one if not interested in actually purchasing one. I mean they would take up a bit of space would they not?
Sorry Leelee, i usually agree with what you post but not this time. Whenever i see cases of poisoning (documented) it is the female doing the poisoning. Men usually use physical force and women use a more subtle approach to wacking someone, such as poison.

Even watching TV this past week i saw a documented case of an elderly lady poisoning her own elderly sister, with arsenic.
Don't be sorry dear Turin, it just shows that we have read different articles and such. I certainly cannot keep up with all the news on this sort of stuff. I remember the most vile one was of a poor lady that just kept getting sicker and sicker and every time they put her in the hospital in intensive care she would get better, her husband was always out of town on 'business' on these occasions. Then she would go home and get well again, bleeding from the mouth, etc. Then finally he started visiting her a lot at hospital and always brought some drink for her. But they caught him. Unfortunately they could not save her.
Well having said that, both sexes can be so very very very evil when they care for noone but their own selfish selves.
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Grondy dear, this time machine that you just plug in, I was wondering,.......if the parts go, just where do you get it serviced......and can one rent out one if not interested in actually purchasing one. I mean they would take up a bit of space would they not?
Actually, one must have their time-machine's CPU book-marked to the period a day or two after they bought it in order to have a source for spare parts, and to have a subroutine running at all times that will have returned one to this time period just prior to the failure of that next part. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

If one fails to implement the above, one might end up being the longest lived person trapped in a period where personal communicators are still thought to be the cat's meow, instead of mere blips on the road to the total vanquishment of personal privacy. Teacher Smilie
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Grondy dear, this time machine that you just plug in, I was wondering,.......if the parts go, just where do you get it serviced......and can one rent out one if not interested in actually purchasing one. I mean they would take up a bit of space would they not?
Actually, one must have their time-machine's CPU book-marked to the period a day or two after they bought it in order to have a source for spare parts, and to have a subroutine running at all times that will have returned one to this time period just prior to the failure of that next part. Elf With a Big Grin Smilie

If one fails to implement the above, one might end up being the longest lived person trapped in a period where personal communicators are still thought to be the cat's meow, instead of mere blips on the road to the total vanquishing of personal privacy. Teacher Smilie
I broke into a nervous sweat of terror just reading your words.I guess I shall just let you do the time travel thing and report back to us. Of course I will appreciate it if you NEVER tell us when you are going. I will be a wreck waiting for you to come back to us.
On second thought, perhaps some kind elves with particularly big muscles can find your place and using a sledge hammer, put it to sleep, thus keeping you safe and on familiar terra firma.
Yes, yes that is best I think. Smile Smilie
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Sorry Leelee, i usually agree with what you post but not this time. Whenever i see cases of poisoning (documented) it is the female doing the poisoning. Men usually use physical force and women use a more subtle approach to wacking someone, such as poison.

Even watching TV this past week i saw a documented case of an elderly lady poisoning her own elderly sister, with arsenic.


How interesting that you guys should be talking of this. I just did a chemistry project of poison hemlock and the alkaloiod coniine which is its main active constituent. I also took a look at cases of poisoning as a means of murder. And statistics do seem to show that women are much more inclined to use poison than men. I have given three major reasons for that. One) Women don't like physical struggles and avoid them whenever possible. Two) Women are generally craftier and can see that poisons are somewhat harder to track than killing by other means Three) In this overly patriarchal society, women are the ones who come in contact with things that are to be ingested most, and thus, have best access to poisoning routes.

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I couldn't resist.
Hey Clover I'm glad you could fill that information in, because I was almost sure that women tended to poison more often than men. Is alkaloiod coniine the main active constituent in Poison Ivy too?
I do not think so. Coniine is a neurotoxin, and poison ivy is only a skin irritant. I've run a search online and I don't think Poison Ivy has Coniine. So that verifies my thoughts, I guess.
In the Fellowship of the Ring, at the council in Rivendell when Elrond is speaking he says how he remembers well the splendour of the banners of Gil-galad and Elendil and Frodo is freaked out as he begins to contemplate how old Lord Elrond must be. Elrond explains that his memory reaches back to the Elder days and explains his geneology; later he goes on to say: Time was when a squirrel could go from tree to tree from what is now the Shire to Dunland west of Isengard. In those lands I journeyed once, and many things wild and strange I knew. But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then he was older than the old.. That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless. .......
So my vote is with dear old Tom.
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So my vote is with dear old Tom.
We can't argue with you about Tom Bombadil being the oldest living being, but the topic is about the most long lived Man and Tom is undoubtedly not a Man: probably a Maiar. Happy Elf Smilie See Was Tom Bombadil Important to.
Are you saying that those like the Maiar are without sex, neither men nor women? Do y ou mean then mortal, just someone who is on this side of the music? If so well then would not the most powerful of the 'gods' of all of those made be the longest living one as well? It would not seem logical to make the first and then the second and then so on and suddenly a newer being is the most powerful. Rather the 'first' born of them all would you not think?
With Man in this thread is meant a member of the race of Men/Atani/Second born. That's what's the capital letter is for.
In furtherance of Virumor's excellent answer above, I'll add we can not rule out the possibility that there may have been some Granny Girl Smilie who buried many a husband and lived to an extremely ripe old age, outliving all the other known men and women of Mankind. She just happened to be another in the long Serching Smilie list of females that Tolkien didn't feel compelled to include to his epic tale of Middle-earth. Wiggle Smilie
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In furtherance of Virumor's excellent answer above, I'll add we can not rule out the possibility that there may have been some Granny who buried many a husband and lived to an extremely ripe old age, outliving all the other known men and women of Mankind.

The Nmenoran Countess Erendis Bathory might be a good candidate.
The Countess seems to have slipped under my radar, do you have a source for her existance or am I right in asuming you are having us on, like pulling our legs? Elf With a Big Grin Smilie
Oh, I could take the safe way out and mention it comes from HOME... but I shan't. Elf Sticking Tounge Out Smilie
Tom Bombadil obviously Big Smile Smilie
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