Over in the C.S. Lewis section Joe-v and I have been discussing whether or not Tolkien's "7 books" (meaning The Hobbit plus the 6 books of the LoTR) can be analyzed in the same way that Michael Ward has analyzed the 7 Chronicles of Narnia in his book "Planet Narnia".

The brief synopsis: Ward claims that Lewis intentionally filled each one of the Chronicles with symbolism from a different medieval "heaven". (Each "heaven" contained one of the 7 pre-Copernican planets that include the sun and moon, along with mercury, venus, mars, and jupiter. What we call astronomers and astrologers today were pretty much one and the same in the medieval period, and it was thought that each "heaven" or "planet" exerted influence on people and metals here on earth). According to Ward, Lewis's "Sun" (or "Sol") influenced book is The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. According to Joe-v, Tolkien's "Sun" book is the Hobbit.

If anyone else is interested, I'd like to hear:

1) Do you see similarities in imagery between The Voyage of the Dawn Treader and The Hobbit?

2) Ward summarizes Sol as associated with : * DAY: Sunday * METAL: Gold * QUALITIES: wisdom; liberality; generosity; freedom; riches; enlightenment; opposition to greed. The influence of Sol is that he brings about "fortunate events" and illuminates the mind. The Greek equivalent of Sol was Apollo, who was known variously as "mouse-catcher" "golden-locks" and "lizard-slayer" (in this case a "lizard" could also be a serpent or a dragon). Sol was considered to hold an honored position in the "middle" of the planets like a heart or a king. Which Valar would fill this role in Tolkien's Middle-Earth?

3) Do you think The Hobbit embodies the ideas related to the medieval concept of Sol? If it does, do you think Tolkien did this on purpose? Joe-v seems to think yes and yes, I however am not so convinced: I think maybe and probably not.

Discuss!

Yes, the thing to do would be to draw out the main themes of the Hobbit first, without reference to any list like I made above, and then compare it to the list afterwards.

On the other hand, if you're not good at drawing themes out on your own, a list of characteristics or personalities or types might help you clothe your feelings about the story in language.

Quite so, didn't JRRT in his preface also say he "disliked all forms of allegory" or words to that effect.

I'm not sure that it's entirely proper to label the identification of mere similarities "allegory".

Isn't allegory when it's pretty clear and specific that a character "is" something else?

For example, the Giant Despair in The Pilgrim's Progress "is" the state of mind or emotion called "despair". "Christian" in the Pilgrim's Progress "is", similarily, the person who is a christian.

But what I presented above is more like discovering archetypes than identifying allegory.

We read Pilgrim's Progess as a family. It strengthened us, but I must admit it also made me feel mentally exhausted! Still, to know that someone, somewhere in this world actually fights the good fight until the bitter end is so encouraging, and I love to live like that. We only had a small nondescript edition but it sufficed.