LadyofLegolas originally began this thread with the following post.



ProgHead777 replied

Long, long ago when we still used the PT email discussion thingy, several of us debated this exact issue... we never did come to any conclusion

I think it depends on your opinion of Sam. As you may or may nor know, we have a number of ardent Samwise haters around here. Fortunately, I am not one of them!

I think Sam might have made a better ringbearer than Frodo. The reasons for this are complicated... in a nutshell, I think Sam, being just a tad "simple" was slightly more immune to the effects of the Ring than Frodo.

If you recall, Sam gave up the Ring to Frodo in Cirith Ungol with only the slightest hesitation. Up to this point, Bilbo had been the only being to ever willingly give up the Ring... and then only with some heavy prodding from Gandalf.

Now, you may say, "Well, Sam only had the Ring for a very, very short period of time relative to Bilbo or even Frodo, for that matter." But if you consider the fact that Gandalf refused to even touch it for a split second then you could come to the conclusion that for most beings, a split second is long enough.

I think Sam showed extraordinary resistance to the power of the Ring. And though I can't say for certain that he would have been strong enough to do what Frodo couldn't, I do think he would have been more likely to do so than Frodo. Does that make any sense?

yeah that what i think...

I dont care...
It seams to me Frodo was the best choice.
Sam would not have been Sam if he had takin the ring.
LadyFeawen



[Edited on 6/8/2003 by LadyFeawen]

Well, this is difficult. Sam is my favourite character but I believe in one way Sam is stronger than Frodo and in an other way he isn't.

I don't doubt that Sam would have been able to throw the ring in the fire of Mount Doom. I do believe in that way he is stronger than Frodo and the Ring wouldn't have that much power over him. Exactly because like Prog said, Sam is more "simple". That's also the reason, why he is the only one of the fellowship who comes unchanged out of this adventure.

But Sam's weakness is that he doesn't think very high of himself. He believes he's clumpsy and not so bright. So I wonder if he would ever made it to Mount Doom. Certainly not alone. He would need someone with him.
Frodo had much more selfrespect and selfestimation and even he wouldn't have got to Mount Doom without Sam. Not only because Sam protected him, saved him from Shelob and the Orcs and carried him when he had no strength left, but also because Sam kept Frodo from losing his mind, from going mad. There Sam proves again that he's strong.
So my point is, Sam would have needed someone too.

But I think his lack of selfrespect would cause him to fail. Imagine the scene when Boromir tries to take the Ring from Frodo. Suppose Sam is standing there alone, unsure of himself, doubting if he would ever succeed (like Frodo also did). Then Boromir shows up. He didn't use violence at once. He first tried to talk Frodo out of destroying the Ring. What would happen if Boromir would tell Sam that he feels sorry for him, bearing such a heavy burden. Asking Sam to give him the Ring, so he would be relieved. That it would be better to use the Ring in stead of destroying it. How would Sam react? What would he think? That such a big and important warrior like Boromir would know better that this simple Hobbit? Would that be in his mind so he would hand over the Ring? Or would he have the strength to remember Gandalf's words? Would he remember his promise to Gandalf? But I am convinced if Boromir would try to take the Ring by force, Sam would never give it up.

But then there is a second difficulty: would he decide to leave the fellowship? I don't think he would. I don't think Sam would ever decide to leave them all behind and sneak out alone. He's too loyal to do that. Here he would need someone like Frodo to convince him to separate from the group and continue by just the two of them.

Well, those are just a few of my thoughts.

Sam assisted Frodo. His loyalty and his help got them through. Who would have done that for Sam if he were the ringbearer?

Thanks Val!




I believe Frodo would support Sam, no matter what. Next to Bilbo and Gandalf, Sam was the one he was most close with. I think they were very good friends. But somehow, I also have this feeling Sam's friendship for Frodo was bigger than Frodo's friendship for Sam.

Gandalf told Frodo, "keep it safe; and keep it secret" and "...don't use it!," but I don't find anywhere that he charged Sam with, "Don't lose him." Was that something made out of whole cloth by PJ, or have I just overlooked that bit in the book?

Ah, yes. And who the they were, is explained a little farther down that same page. So PJ attributed that to Gandalf because he skipped Gildor and Mrs. Maggots mushroom and bacon supper, not to mention the wagon ride to the ferry.

I guess I better read the books again after I watch LotR: TTT so I can determine what is real and what is imaginary.

Yes, that was Sam's intent. Whether he on his own, could have been successful is quite doubtful, because Gollum was still out there and Sam had to sleep sometime: Gollum wouldn't have respected that sleep.