We all know that Tolkien's characters in LOTR books aren't really two-dimensional - they have their strenghts and their weaknesses. But in my mind I was playing with this idea for a long time. The question is:

if you could depict LOTR characters as epitomes to abstract characteristics like emotions, virtues and conditions how would you do it?

For example, for me Arwen in the books would be the epitome of Love in the LOTR universe. She gave everything she had for the man she loved. And Pippin... well, that's a tough one - he's always causing trouble, isn't he? And it alwyas turns out that the problems he caused wer're leading to something good. He would be portraying Luck for me. I'm really looking forward to see your suggestions, because the question stayed in my head for so long!

Thank you, LeeLee. As I said - that question was in my head for a long time, it was probably one of my favourite things to think about when trying to fall asleep. Or cleanig the house

Sacrifice - I was wondering about Sacrifice also. Never thought about Eowyn though, but it definitely makes sense for me. That was one of the things I saw mainly in Frodo, but now when I think about it Eowyn's fate really defines it for me. She had so many duties.

Boromir - his name just popped into my head - right now I am thinking about him describing the fair and the dark side of Pride. He was a noble man, very honorable, very proud. He did some bad things because he felt he was obliged to do whatever it takes to save his country. He didn't want to sneak up on Sauron. He wanted to stand there, in front of Mordor armies and fight for every inch of his beloved land, proudly as any Gondor ruler should be. It led to his fall.

How about Wisdom - there is some obvious choice, right? And speking of the wise characters... how would you describe Saruman?

Saruman -  Knowledge without understanding is similar to ignorance. It's like breaking a toy to find out what's in it or like the story of the milk maid.

I will step up for Aragorn here. I have noticed that many person (I'm not talking about people in his thread) have a cliche of Aragorn being a mighty hero and great warrior. While it is of course true, Aragorn is also a character we can look up too. He's life wasn't comfortable nor laid out on a red carpet.

I agree that he's fate was there waiting for him. But treading on that path was a Choice he made. He could have chosen otherwise and remained but a Ranger of the North. He instead chose to forge his own destiny with his will, and the desire to redress the ill caused by his ancestors. The first half of his life was long and hard where he endured many dangers and solitude, roving the wild hunting he creatures of Sauron and protecting the unsuspecting villagers of the shire.

Who knows what darkness he faced alone, and for all his hardship was scorned by the very people he and his people protected. Yet he had the strength of character to remain himself and learn from he wise and live and rule correctly later on.

I doubt anyone of us can really identify ourselves with him, but in a way he is what we deep down all strive for. We have to fight hardship daily, overcome barriers while at the same time striving to remain who we are and believe what we believe in. I believe that Aragorn is up there with the Sams. And I barely mentioned the task of renouncing the ring which he could have rightly claimed at the Council of Elrond!

Thorin,

yes, you're right. It would be a bit wrong to simplify Aragorn this way. Of course, the years when he was  watching over various places, helping, fighting, protecting what he loved. That what makes him so extraordinary - it is a king, who was some kind of a servant, who was belittled, who knew despair, tragedy, fear, dejection. His return to Minas Tirith was well-deserved not because of his heritage only, but also from his own deed. What a strong character. Quiet and fair hero. I can't see anybody identifying with him too.

When I think about it now - he's kind of Witch King antagonist. Both character's were Men, powerful Kings of Men. Both faced the same weakness at some point in their life. One of them was miserable, but his wisdom, his dignity, his persistence lead him to the place he should be - he became the king. And the other (at least from what we know) was a ruler, but didn't have the strength, the persistence, the wisdom - he ended miserable.

Brego,

Beautiful words. She saw so many things, she experienced so many things, she knew what the future will bring for her and her people but couldn't  neither stop or hurry it.

I love the scene with Arwen visiting abandoned Lothlorien too. So sad, the fate of the Elves in the Third Era is so sad. 

I absolutely love this! You are so right and this never even crossed my mind!

Thanks, Thorin. It never crossed my mind until yesterday. Oh, and comparing their "relationships" with Eowyn - she loved Aragorn (or maybe I shoul dsay she was in love with him) and she killed The Witch King.

Greed and Saruman - yes, you're right here. But once you said "ignorance", it seems like the obvious connection, that was a brilliant choice!

LeeLee, I love your interpretation of Frodo's story. I must say that I sometimes catch myself thinking that he actually failed, because he let the Ring to seize him - but then I suddenly realize that he was the one who decided to go to Mordor and he was  able to go so far with this terrible burden, and who am I to judge how he handled it? Your interpretation made me realize, that in the Middle-Earth we're always dealing with not only what we see, but also with Eru's existence - his plans are fulfilled in all those stories we read in Tolkien's books. Thank you for reminding me about this important thing.

Galadriel is such a powerful character in my opinion - she (and Gandalf, but it is another story, since he's much more actively involved in those events) have this ... overwhelming Consciousness. If someone in the Third Era knows what needs to take place in the history of Middle - Earth it is Galadriel. As I said before, she has this powerful knowledge of the past, the present and the future. She is aware of the world changing inexorably, irretrievably in front of her. She's not participating in those events, because - as LeeLee beautifully said - she's not in Eru's plan when it comes to this war. It is not her task to save the world, even if she's fully aware of the what may come. She's waiting, she watching - pretty much like Arwen after Aragorn's death - this world won't belong to her.

Now, I've about Aragorn and the word that comes to my mind is responsibility. He pondered on his "place" for a long time because he wished to do the right thing and not being a king because of his blood but also for his actions. So for me, I think he knew well which tasks were bound to this title.

I agree with you - Aragorn's life was full of responsibility in a various ways. First - and most important - he was aware of his heritage, and if I remember correctly there were times he found this as a quite heavy burden - he was afraid of going the same path as Isildur and being defeated by his weakness, "weakness in his blood". Also being in love with an Elvish woman made his responsible for her future in Middle Earth in those dark times, without her family, maybe not for long if the Ring won't be destroyed. It made him responsible for her life after his death and for the loss of her immortality. He knew she loves him, but because of the responsibility he asked her if she is convinced that she wants to give him that precious gift. After Gandalf's fall in Moria he felt responsible for the other members of the Fellowship - I'm sure not only because it was Gandalf's request to become the leader of the group, but because he knew it should be his task to protect them. I believe he felt responsible for the fate of Men - that's why he engaged in the Battle of the Hornburg, that's why he supported Rohan. This is amazing how many responsibilities he had to deal with. And we must remember what Thorin said a couple of posts before - it still was a choice.

Earlier today I was thinking about Denethor. I came out with Dejection. He had no hope, he questioned Faramir's quality as a warrior, he questioned his own strength to rule and protect Gondor, he didn't see the possibility that they still can defend themselves, and Sauron can be defeated. He questioned Aragorn's right to be a king and wisdom in Mithrandir's advice. There's so much sadness in him, and I'm sure it was hard to be the Steward of Gondor, during those times.

Thinking over it, I would  put Elrond and Treebeard in the same group if I had to describe them. I can't seem to find a single word for them but it's more like they represent all the good memories and feeling people turn to in times of sorrow and difficulty! After all, they have been in ME since time immemorial and have known the good as the bad. They keep the good memories fresh in their mind as treebeard himself says, he sings the names of the Entwives to himself to remind him of their beauty and characters.  They're like the small, "unimportant" things which ironically always bring a quite little smile of joy and pleasure on our faces!

The Ents, the trees, the plants, the flowers. There is one word that comes to my mind and it's GREEN. It is due to the colour of course but also for the meaning we actually give to be green or behave green. For me, the green behaviour is living with respect towards nature and others, it's living according to your basic needs and taking other people into account, not being egoistic.

Anyway, the Ents cannot be described by the word green; it's too simple for them. Those trees shepherds had an ancient wisdom sleeping deeply in their roots, as if they were witnesses of every event in Arda from the very beginning, as if they were born in the same second as Arda was created.

I cannot think of the precise word I am looking for when I think of the Ents, but as well as being ancient almost to the point of being forgotten, they have within them an ancient regret for their estrangement and loss of their Entwives. I cannot think of the Ents without feeling this ancient sadness and regret within them.

I thought about Eowyn yesterday and I found another word that matches her character in my opinion. It is Humility - she's aware of her duties - as a woman, as a King Theoden's niece, as a possible heir of Rohan. Maybe her humility, love and respect towards her uncle restrained her from leaving Meduseld, during the times when Saruman overtook Theoden's mind - who knows. She suffered greatly during those times.

Purpose - that's the word I recently linked to Frodo's story. Of course, Frodo wouldn't go to Mordor and would not succeed without purpose. Gandalf's words "Bilbo was meant to find the ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it...and that is an encouraging thought (...)" really defined his role in the Third Era for me. So we can say that Frodo was purposed for that journey, as LeeLee somewhere said - he was in Eru's plans, and his goal was to take the Ring to Mordor. I'd even say, that after fnishing his goal, Frodo couldn't find a purpose for living in the Shire, and that's why he felt empty, exhausted and suffered so much. But that's of course an interpretation for our cogitations here, it doen't exhaust the subject.

Wenlesael, you made a wonderful input on this thread

I cannot agree with you about Eowyn though. For me saying that she was irresponsible because she wanted to fight for everything she loved it's like saying that Pippin, Sam and Merry were irresponsible because they wanted to help Frodo (and Elrond along with Gandalf who made the irresponsible decision to let them go on this journey). Of course, we can say that but I find it more important that in the end if Eowyn wouldn't go there and fight, the Witch King wouldn't be defeated. Merry wouldn't be on Pellenor Fields. The times of War of the Ring were so crucial to the Middle-Earth's existence, and that being said - they were full of hard, sometimes desperate decicions. And I see Eowyn's decision as desperate - if Sauron would win what future could she and her people have? She made the same decision as her uncle - she wanted to fight, because that was better way to end her life - fighting not waiting. And Merry... he also made that decision. Maybe that's a Rohan thing?

You've linked "Bitterness" with Faramir - may I ask why? That's interesting.

Denethor reminds me of bitterness by the way. He had no hope, he saw that the kingdom he ruled and faced great danger and probably will be defeated soon. He lost his beloved son, and being totally dismissing towards the other - he felt abandoned. Like his life was just waiting for the inevitable - defeat and death.

I'd love to see what you all would say about Smeagol. I have a hard time finding the words myself.

Aragorn - HOPE (as in faith, not as in "I hope it won't rain tomorrow"; is not his name Estel, which means hope?

I would agree with your reasoning Elbereth! However I would not consider Faramir as bitter. While the reason you listed are absolutely correct I would think that Bitterness is too strong a word for Faramir. For that I would point out that he still loved his father as evidenced when he called out to his in the midst of his fever in 'The Pyre of Denethor' and not letting personal feeling cloud his judgement in his dealings with the Ring Bearer.

I would tend to think he's more like the quiet person we all know who we think is 'ordinary' but surprises us when he shows his skills and talents, like he did after the death of his brother.

Very thought provoking everyone.

To me the Ents represent a breaking of covenant and the everlasting sorrow that came from that. Their both, husbands and wives, their disinterest in staying together as one with one another and the wives leaving represent a tearing of the covenant between them, and although they were blessed with incredibly long lives there was always an accompaning sigh and sorrow, at least in regards the sentinments of Treebeard who represented the males, forever. And I have no doubt that the wives, though they moved forward as it were and enjoyed 'new and interesting pursuits,' gradually saw the emptiness of it all without the fellowship of their mates and perhaps just died out. And perhaps through pride or dim memory did not go and look for their husbands but just quietly perished through time.

Wen I too must disagree with the word irresponsible for Eowyn. Never before in her life it seems had she disobeyed the wishes of her parents or her beloved uncle. i believe, that just as Frodo suddenly understands he 'must' leave the Shire, his home and get the ring away from the people there, so too, in a flash of understanding , Eowyn knew she must go to battle and take Merry with her against orders. Just as Gandalf had told Frodo he was supposed to have the ring just as Bilbo was to have the ring- called to it by Eru Himselfso too was this shield maiden and we can see the result of her going. It was in fact these two, a woman and a Hobbit who killed the Witch King and no others to fulfill what was said ' No man can kill me" as the Witch King boasted. And no man as it were did, only a woman and a Halfling.

No, in the end it was the divine will of the grand Creator and no one else's that was to take place. There were others left behind that knew the ways of the king from his good days before Grima and would would quietly carry on until the rightful ruler came back. And like every kingdom there would have been someone in place of Aeowyn should anything happen to her in normal day to day life.