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Thread: the eagles
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Good question, Isengarder. One that we will be discussing in Bilbos-Study on Sunday actually.
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Cool, cant wait.
Maybe in the books written by a dozen different postAuthorIDs Frodo did get a ride on an eagle, but as those books cut out 700 pages of adventure, nobody bothered reading them and they disappeared into obscurity.
Good thing, really.
I read some written work by the artist Christo. He described an art in which the spectators participated in the creation of the final product. One of Christo's land art pieces, "Lightning field", I think it's called, requires travel by plane, car and foot to get to it. Why? Because the experience of the journey is its life. The Cowboy Junkies sing lyrics expressing this notion..."Where you've been is good and gone, all you keep's the getting there." 
Where eagles dare with Iron Maiden will explain this!
HAHAHAHAHHA
NOTE!
this post is not to be taken seriously!
HAHAHAHAHHA
NOTE!
this post is not to be taken seriously!
From the very first moment the eagle would cross the Ered Lithui and enter Mordor, Sauron would notice the eagle and Frodo and also immediately know the Ringbearer was flying to Mt Doom; so, Sauron would immedately send his flying Nazgul.
And it isn't true that Sauron didn't have the flying mounts for his Nazgul in first book; he already had them but he only wanted to use them later on. (and Legolas shot a fell beast near the Anduin in FoTR and i think that WAS a flying Nazgul so there indeed was a flying Nazgul in first book)
And it isn't true that Sauron didn't have the flying mounts for his Nazgul in first book; he already had them but he only wanted to use them later on. (and Legolas shot a fell beast near the Anduin in FoTR and i think that WAS a flying Nazgul so there indeed was a flying Nazgul in first book)
YUP!!!
That is true Ross.
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That is true Ross.
That is true Ross.
Ross??? Amari’ either you accidently wrote a post in the wrong thread or you just thought it was Ross because of the avatar but it was Virumor who wrote a post before mine
.....hehehhee
My bet would be a avatar mix up. I do that sometimes.
As do I, I keep thinking Allyssa or Rednell wrote something only to go back and find it was by someone else with the same avatar. Just like both Aul’ and I are using 'Finrod Felagund's duel with Sauron' for ours.
[Edited on 27/3/2003 by Grondmaster]
[Edited on 27/3/2003 by Grondmaster]
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Just like both Aul’ and I are using 'Finrod Felagund's duel with Sauron' for ours.
Just like both Aul’ and I are using 'Finrod Felagund's duel with Sauron' for ours.
Ehhh?? I do not follow here Grondy...That aint Finrod Felagund.....That is either Turgon or Tuor and Ulmo....I think it was Tuor yes....And there he met Ulmo and found the sword helmet and armor and shield that Turgon left for the one who would warn Turgon.....
I thought you knew this Grondy?
Sorry virumor!!
Silly me.. It probably was because of the avatar and my malfunctioning brain...
Silly me.. It probably was because of the avatar and my malfunctioning brain...
No problem it doesn't matter.
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So I would guess Grondy knew after all....??
I'm afraid not. The avatar comes from a larger picture by John Howe called Ulmo, Lord of the Waters. The fragment used in the avatar is Tuor as he meets Ulmo.So I would guess Grondy knew after all....??
I knew the poem alright, but Aul’ and Val are right about the picture and I was mistaken. :elfembar:
It was Tuor and Ulmo. Here is the link to the 1995 calendar and the picture is from September.
http://www.mi.uib.no/~respl/tolkien/howe2.html
Meanwhile back to the eagles and Nazgul's flying steels. I think the eagles would have been a match for the Nazgul's flying steed. And come to think of it were those a corruption of the eagles via captured eggs? Just a thought to ponder.
[Edited on 27/3/2003 by Grondmaster]
It was Tuor and Ulmo. Here is the link to the 1995 calendar and the picture is from September.
http://www.mi.uib.no/~respl/tolkien/howe2.html
Meanwhile back to the eagles and Nazgul's flying steels. I think the eagles would have been a match for the Nazgul's flying steed. And come to think of it were those a corruption of the eagles via captured eggs? Just a thought to ponder.
[Edited on 27/3/2003 by Grondmaster]
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So I would guess Grondy knew after all....??
I'm afraid not. The avatar comes from a larger picture by John Howe called Ulmo, Lord of the Waters. The fragment used in the avatar is Tuor as he meets Ulmo.So I would guess Grondy knew after all....??
Just as I said....And Perwing you are right too.....about the fact that Finrod Felagund the most noble elf ever to exist is the coolest character.....but his brother(??) Fingolfin was extremely brave! Fighting Morgoth!! Damn that is bravery....He rushes up to the iron gates of Angband and DEMANDS that Morgoth who is a little bit frighten of the son of Finw’...But then he falls...Fingolfin....a brave elf.....*sob sob* so sad
Naah Fingolfin is Finrod's uncle. And i think Fingolfin fighting Morgoth isn't bravery but just desperation : he thought his people was totally defeated by Morgoth so he didn't see another option than to challenge Morgoth himself.
Okey....I was a little uncertain about the relations between Finrod and Fingolfin.....but Fingolfin was BRAVE!!! You seriously do not think that a cowardly man would challenge an AINU!!!! He must be brave to challenge the first Dark Lord......
I'm pretty sure the eagles wouldn't carry anyone into Mordor because they would know it would be totally insane to do such a thing.
And by the way Ringfacwen, the Eagle King Gwaihir is a good friend with Ol’rin(one reason might be that Gwaihir knew he was a maia of Manw’ or something like that) and they did carry Bilbo, Thorin and company away from the wargs and goblins.....So if they had LET Frodo ride them it would not be as being commanded but to do an old friends friend a favour....but then again Virumor might be right...The Eagles were not so many at this time and I do not think that they would risk to become decimized!
Don't forget though, that the eagles carried Frodo and Sam out of Mordor after they had destroyed the ring.
That was why Er’ sent the Eagles to the Black Gate: to deliver his chosen ringbearers from the fiery doom that awaited them, had they remained on the side of Orodruin.
In The Hobbit we learned that Gandalf had pulled an arrow from the Chief Eagle (cf. the thorn from the lion's paw in the Greek myth and the fa’rie tale) which was a simpler explanation for this unsophisticated story than the actual background story found via LotR and The Silmarillion.
In The Hobbit we learned that Gandalf had pulled an arrow from the Chief Eagle (cf. the thorn from the lion's paw in the Greek myth and the fa’rie tale) which was a simpler explanation for this unsophisticated story than the actual background story found via LotR and The Silmarillion.
Well Val they did rescue Frodo and Samwise from destruction after the destruction of the Ring....but what Virumor and I mean is that they were quite much safer to fly into Mordor after the Nazg’l and Sauron were gone.....do you see where I am going at?
[Edited on 1/4/2003 by Aul’]
[Edited on 1/4/2003 by Aul’]
Exactly my point, Aule.
Mmmm....I thought that Virumor so I represented you and me....if you didn’t mind?
I didn't and don't mind Aule, i am glad someone agrees with me.
Yes now we have enough forces to bring the destruction upon Grondy and Val! hahahahahaha
Maybe Perwing, but the Valar already interfered in Middle-Earth by sending the Istari. Perhaps they just didn't want to interfere even more.
Yeah but that would be to simple....or nah forget I said that!
You can read that in Unfinished Tales : Manw’ himself sent Olorin to Middle-Earth; the Istari arrived in Middle-Earth around 1000 or 1100 Third Age and the War of the Ring began in 3018 Third Age.
So, they were sent 'only' 2000 years ago. BTW, Saruman was sent by Aul’, Radagast by Yavanna. There are also Alatar and Pallando but of these blokes nothing was heard anymore after they went into the East. Anyway, they were indeed sent by the Valar themselves.
So, they were sent 'only' 2000 years ago. BTW, Saruman was sent by Aul’, Radagast by Yavanna. There are also Alatar and Pallando but of these blokes nothing was heard anymore after they went into the East. Anyway, they were indeed sent by the Valar themselves.
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seems it's true that you learn as long as you live!!
Also every time you read or re-read one of the books or a discussion here.seems it's true that you learn as long as you live!!
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Did the Valar really send the Istari?? Or was that just Eru's plan from the beginning.
Eru did manipulate things from time to time during the history of Arda, but when you look closely at the occasions he did so, they generally revolved around Elves and Men. The reason for this is because this "interference" was done through themes in the Great Music, most noticably the third theme (when he introduced the theme of his Children).Did the Valar really send the Istari?? Or was that just Eru's plan from the beginning.
As the Istari are Maiar, they actually took part in the Great Music, and are therefore not themes added by Eru to counteract Morgoth's destructive themes. Each time Eru altered or wove new themes, others joined in with him, and therefore when the music came to be played out for real, they acted their part.
I'm finding it a little difficult to explain this concept, so I hope you are able to follow what I am trying to say. Put simply, the Istari are Maian spirits who took up part of Eru's theme and later played the part for real, whereas the likes of Earendil, Tuor, Beren and Aragorn are likely to be elements Eru introduced himself with specific roles to play. They were tools created by Eru, with the sole intention of countering the plans of Melkor and Sauron.
