Everything from the Music of the Ainur to the start of the Siege of Angband should be covered and condensed into a 15 minure intro to the first movie, leaving many details out to draw the viewer’s interests and be discovered as the films progress eg Finrod and Amarie love story which can be shown as a flashback in movie 1.
Movie 1 ’ The Union of Maedhros
The first movie proper after the intro should begin with the Battle of Sudden flame and the death of Fingolfin in his fight with Morgoth. This can then lead perfectly on too the Beren and Luthien. We have Movie 1. In this film the relationship between Beren and Hurin and his brother can be made more significant, as if they actually are friends. This is because a movie cannot have whole random lists of characters with no relationship to one another. The first film will end with Luthien defeating Sauron and Hurin and Hour leaving for the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. The timeframe between these two events can be condensed and Turin and Tuor can be made a little older than in the book (instead of being just born older children eg 11 or 13) and be visible characters so that the end of this film can lead onto the second with continuity of main characters. Thetitle of this movie can be explained by the fact that it is Beren and Luthien’s exploits which lead to the Union of Maedhros and the Battle of Unnumbered Tears being possible. (Sauron can be the antagonist of this film).
Movie 2 - The Curse of Morgoth
Movie two should begin with Beren and Luthien stealing the Silmaril from Morgoth and the remainder of that tale. It will deal with the tragedy of Unnumbered Tears and will follow the story of the two sets of cousins Turin and Tuor, continually shifting back to Hurin sitting on Morgoth's seat having to watch his family being torn apart. It will end with Tuor reaching Gondolin and Turin Nargothrond where he meets Finduilas and it seems that the tragedy of Morgoth’s curse is broken. Tuor on the other hand meets Idril and the envy of Maeglin can be introduced. It will end for Beren and Luthien with their death and Luthien going to try and save him. She is given the choice to become mortal. What will she do? Luthien chooses to become mortal and returns to the earth with Beren. They settle in Ossiriand and Dior is born. This movie will deal with Morgoth trying to stemmy the progress of the Protagonists but being unable to, he is even fooled by Beren and Luthien who steal the silmaril from him!
Movie 3 ’ The War of the Jewels
Movie will begin again with a vision of Hurin still sitting on Morgoth's seat and will complete the tales of the Children of Hurin, the Fall of Gondolin and Beren and Luthien. A time lapse of a few years since the last film will have taken place with Tuor in Gondolin, Turin in Nargothrond and Luthien and Beren in Ossiriand. It will include the Sack of Menegroth, Fall of Gondolin and the Children of Hurin tragedy etc. It will have Beren and Dior routing the Dwarves, Gondolin falling and Tuor and his family safely escaping. Dior will be crowned King of Doriath. It will show his death and the fall of Doriath but the survival of Elwing who will meet her future husband Earendil. The film can end with Earendil leaving on his ship and finding Valinor and petinioning to the Valar on behalf of Beren and Luthien, thus completeing the quest set up by his forefathers and Elwing's (Beren and Luthien, Tuor, Dior). In the final sequences of the movie there can be images of the final battle and the sinking of Beleriand, where Sauron can surface for another apparence.
Now I know that Puritans will hate this condensing of time and slight rejigging of events - but it may be necessary for the film to work.
Thread: SILMARLLION FILMS - A TRILOGY IDEA
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So it looks like you're trying to have all three stories kind of going on at once. (the three being 1. Beren and Luthien, 2. Turin, 3. Tuor) Of course, you don't have them happening at exactly the same time, but close enough.
Why do this when you can separate them into individual movies? The timeline would still be mainly on target (the stories mostly happened back-to-back), and people wouldn't get confused with all the plots.
Why do this when you can separate them into individual movies? The timeline would still be mainly on target (the stories mostly happened back-to-back), and people wouldn't get confused with all the plots.
IN MY POV the problem is continuity of characters. I just can't see three movies involving three (largrely) different sets of main characters being commercially viable. But I am fallible and would like to be proven wrong as I love the Silmarillion.
In the book, B&L comes first. Then there is the chapter about the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, where Huor dies and Hurin is taken captive. That sets up the tale of Turin to happen. Then after Turin and his sister die, Hurin is set free, and he finds Morwen and she dies. Then comes the Ruin of Doriath (that whole ordeal with the Dwarves). It ends with Beren and Luthien dying, and Dior, their son, receiving the Silmaril. The sons of Feanor then attack him, and he dies, but his daughter takes the Silmaril to the sea. Then comes the tale of Tuor.
So the hardest thing would be to communicate the family trees to the audience. The relationship between Hurin and Huor, the fact that Tuor is Huor's son, and Turin is Hurin's son...the fact that Dior is Beren's son, and Elwing is Dior's daughter. This all must be communicated because the three stories span several generations.
So the hardest thing would be to communicate the family trees to the audience. The relationship between Hurin and Huor, the fact that Tuor is Huor's son, and Turin is Hurin's son...the fact that Dior is Beren's son, and Elwing is Dior's daughter. This all must be communicated because the three stories span several generations.
Part of the problem with filming the Silmarillion is all of the characters dying 
. People really don't like Tragedies for the most part. And as so much of the Silmarillion is tragedy, that, more than anything, is the biggest hurdle to overcome and making movies from it that are commercially viable.
[b:5xqig73f]GB[/b:5xqig73f]
. People really don't like Tragedies for the most part. And as so much of the Silmarillion is tragedy, that, more than anything, is the biggest hurdle to overcome and making movies from it that are commercially viable.[b:5xqig73f]GB[/b:5xqig73f]
I love your idea and think it would make an amazing series of movies, dare I say more sophisticated and beautiful than even the LOTR films. I agree that having all the stories going simultaneously but showing how they are all connected is a great way to do it. To have 3 largely different stories makes it way too episodic when what we want is an epic story that all connects somehow where we can get involved in a lot of different journeys. It worked in TTT and ROTK so why not here? As far as tragedy not commercially viable, I beg to differ. What is the highest grossing movie of all time? A tragic love story. (Sorry to compare Middle Earth with a certain sinking ship.) People like to see people die in movies because nothing is more emotional that death. Death is the lifeblood of drama and the Silmarillion is drama not an action story. It has big battles and heroes but at its core its about the frailty of people, be they Elves or Men and price we all pay for the mistakes of our forefathers. There is redemption in our actions but that comes with a price as well.
I really don't know what the common people want, since all of my friends are very strange people. I know one girl, a Tolkien nut like me, who said (and I paraphrase), "Tolkien tragedy is the most beautiful thing ever written." There is just something about Tolkien tragedy that is so utterly stunning and beautiful that the horribleness of it just adds to its beauty. I don't think the English language can rightly describe it.
But I can understand that the general public could get depressed if three films came out and only one of them (B&L) had a reasonably good ending.
But I can understand that the general public could get depressed if three films came out and only one of them (B&L) had a reasonably good ending.
Titanic is really the exception that proves the rule. When I tried to figure out why the last Matrix film did so poorly despite it's Mythopoetic brilliance, most people said it was because Neo died. The second problem was that people didn't understand the complex mythology and philosophy behind it. This is precisely the same problem the Silmarillion would face in a film adaptation.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be a labour of love as the expense would outweigh the financial benefit. And as a Tolkien fan, I concur with Beren that Tolkien writes beautiful Arthurian Romantic Tragedy. But even I find a lot of the Silmarillion depressing
.
[b:1pdz0esz]GB[/b:1pdz0esz]
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be a labour of love as the expense would outweigh the financial benefit. And as a Tolkien fan, I concur with Beren that Tolkien writes beautiful Arthurian Romantic Tragedy. But even I find a lot of the Silmarillion depressing
.[b:1pdz0esz]GB[/b:1pdz0esz]
I'll make this post regard tragedy only.
I'll start with the Matrix comment.
I would argue the bad part wasn't so much that Neo died. That made snese and seemed like it should happen. I like it. But what the hell was up with Trinity's death scene. I wanted to reach out and choke her so she would hurry up and die already. It was like the writer wanted to twist our heartstrings with her death. But kept on trying to twist more after the plug should have been pulled. And the speech just made it worse. All the whining that the first time she died, she didn't have the time to tell him... Tell him what already! Out with it woman!
Titanic: Wonderful point. Tragedy can and has been commercially viable. I still just like the ship sinking, but whatever floats you boat... or sinks it.
Not Titanic: I would have used a different tragedy to make my point. Romeo and Juliet. You can use the same words and add guns instead of swords and still make money in the theater! The reach of this tragic tale of star crossed lovers is seen, read, heard, loved, and reinvented time and time again. There even are great similarities between them and Berend & Luthien.
I would argue that tragedy can be just as commercially succesful as action. If, and only if, it is done well. Granted action can flop when done poorly as well.
The hardest hurdle I think these proposed Silmarillion films would have is not so much that they are a tragedy. But that they are tragedy so closly associated with such an epic action/adventure set as LotR. I personally believe that a large audience would have loved these films for what they are, except they will enter the theater expecting something else.
Expectations when you enter the theater have such a large impact on how much you enjoy the film. Between readers expectations, LotR filmgoers only expectations, and everyone's expectations of the current handling of Tolkien work, These movies would have quite a high bar to reach. Maybe if they wait a decade or so first.
I'll start with the Matrix comment.
I would argue the bad part wasn't so much that Neo died. That made snese and seemed like it should happen. I like it. But what the hell was up with Trinity's death scene. I wanted to reach out and choke her so she would hurry up and die already. It was like the writer wanted to twist our heartstrings with her death. But kept on trying to twist more after the plug should have been pulled. And the speech just made it worse. All the whining that the first time she died, she didn't have the time to tell him... Tell him what already! Out with it woman!
Titanic: Wonderful point. Tragedy can and has been commercially viable. I still just like the ship sinking, but whatever floats you boat... or sinks it.
Not Titanic: I would have used a different tragedy to make my point. Romeo and Juliet. You can use the same words and add guns instead of swords and still make money in the theater! The reach of this tragic tale of star crossed lovers is seen, read, heard, loved, and reinvented time and time again. There even are great similarities between them and Berend & Luthien.
I would argue that tragedy can be just as commercially succesful as action. If, and only if, it is done well. Granted action can flop when done poorly as well.
The hardest hurdle I think these proposed Silmarillion films would have is not so much that they are a tragedy. But that they are tragedy so closly associated with such an epic action/adventure set as LotR. I personally believe that a large audience would have loved these films for what they are, except they will enter the theater expecting something else.
Expectations when you enter the theater have such a large impact on how much you enjoy the film. Between readers expectations, LotR filmgoers only expectations, and everyone's expectations of the current handling of Tolkien work, These movies would have quite a high bar to reach. Maybe if they wait a decade or so first.
I think you have put your finger on it Show. The majority of Fantasy and Action fans don't like Tragedy (I should know, as I often share those sentiments myself ). Whereas, for some reason, Romance and Realism fans seem drawn to Romantic Tragedies.
The exception for me is Pan's Labyrinth--I can only handle the Tragic Aspect because I believe the Fantasy element is more real than the Realist element; in which case the little girl doesn't actually die but returns to her rightful realm
. Still, awfully sad though. I cried my eyes out in that film (I am kind of a sap for "Weepies" though). And Sophie's Choice, I wil never ever watch that again, and I wish I had never seen it. It was just too painful.
One has to be really careful to strike the right tone in film. Too strong of a Tragedy can undermine the whole film. There is just enough Tragedy at the beginning of X-Men to charge the film with emotional resonance (similar to the scene in Sophie's Choice), but it was balanced much better by the Fantastic elements.
Finally, as much as I love every Matrix movie (and Animations), I agree: the second death scene of Trinity was Overdone. They should have dialed it back a bit. Still, it's a minor flaw, and not enough to ruin what would have been an otherwise perfect film (imo ).
In conclusion; if the Fantasy elements of The Silmarillion are made the most prominent, it would be possible to pull it off enough for someone like me. But I still think it would be likely to underperform at the box-office. A shame really, because I would love to see it onscreen. But maybe someday it will be done simply for the sake of Art by someone who doesn't care about box-office.
[b:34bl05m3]GB[/b:34bl05m3]
). Whereas, for some reason, Romance and Realism fans seem drawn to Romantic Tragedies. The exception for me is Pan's Labyrinth--I can only handle the Tragic Aspect because I believe the Fantasy element is more real than the Realist element; in which case the little girl doesn't actually die but returns to her rightful realm
. Still, awfully sad though. I cried my eyes out in that film (I am kind of a sap for "Weepies" though). And Sophie's Choice, I wil never ever watch that again, and I wish I had never seen it. It was just too painful. One has to be really careful to strike the right tone in film. Too strong of a Tragedy can undermine the whole film. There is just enough Tragedy at the beginning of X-Men to charge the film with emotional resonance (similar to the scene in Sophie's Choice), but it was balanced much better by the Fantastic elements.
Finally, as much as I love every Matrix movie (and Animations), I agree: the second death scene of Trinity was Overdone. They should have dialed it back a bit. Still, it's a minor flaw, and not enough to ruin what would have been an otherwise perfect film (imo
).In conclusion; if the Fantasy elements of The Silmarillion are made the most prominent, it would be possible to pull it off enough for someone like me. But I still think it would be likely to underperform at the box-office. A shame really, because I would love to see it onscreen. But maybe someday it will be done simply for the sake of Art by someone who doesn't care about box-office.
[b:34bl05m3]GB[/b:34bl05m3]
I think the only real complaint I have for the three films actually being a triology is that there is no unifying story arc. At least not as shown.
Ok, that is a terrible sounding paragraph. But I'll leave it there as a weak attempt at what I'm trying to say. He goes try number two.
While FotR, TTT, and RotK all can stand alone, with a biggining, middle and end; the quest of the ring links all three films. The stories from the Silmarillian are even more independent than the three volumes of Lord of the Rings. But still have that singular overarcing quest.
The Silmarils.
We all seem to have strayed from a prime focal point. Suddenly with this the focus of any "Silmarillian" films can change drastically.
Beren and Luthien would still be a prime story with direct influence on the Silmarils.
This would also mean that the voyage of Earendil and the war of Wrath have to be added to the mix. That really is the conclusion of the Silmaril arc. And really, the reason the Silmarils cause so much anguish is the Oath of Feanor that drives his sons to stike down anyone who would take and keep a Silmaril from their rightful owners, themselves.
Greed and the love of things is what drives the entire overarcing story. At least that's how I read it.
And then, with this as the overall story arc, it's not quite as much of a tradgedy story. Because in the end Melkor is overthrown, the Elves are welcomed back to Valinor, and some have proven the potential of men.
Ok, that is a terrible sounding paragraph. But I'll leave it there as a weak attempt at what I'm trying to say. He goes try number two.
While FotR, TTT, and RotK all can stand alone, with a biggining, middle and end; the quest of the ring links all three films. The stories from the Silmarillian are even more independent than the three volumes of Lord of the Rings. But still have that singular overarcing quest.
The Silmarils.
We all seem to have strayed from a prime focal point. Suddenly with this the focus of any "Silmarillian" films can change drastically.
Beren and Luthien would still be a prime story with direct influence on the Silmarils.
This would also mean that the voyage of Earendil and the war of Wrath have to be added to the mix. That really is the conclusion of the Silmaril arc. And really, the reason the Silmarils cause so much anguish is the Oath of Feanor that drives his sons to stike down anyone who would take and keep a Silmaril from their rightful owners, themselves.
Greed and the love of things is what drives the entire overarcing story. At least that's how I read it.
And then, with this as the overall story arc, it's not quite as much of a tradgedy story. Because in the end Melkor is overthrown, the Elves are welcomed back to Valinor, and some have proven the potential of men.
Thank you so much, Show, for setting us back on course. I admit that I strayed from the Silmarils in my pushing for the Big Three.
But the puzzle is this: How do you make a series about the Silmarils, from beginning to end, without it being 20 movies long? None of us want it to turn out like Harry Potter: manufactured films, delivered right on time every time, diminishing the quality and realism. We want every one to be handled with love and devotion like it is in itself the only important story.
To everyone: Let us reconsider our ideas, and see if we can come up with something that would be about the Silmarils, and not be more than 4 movies long. I myself will probably do a skim of the Silmarillion to refresh myself.
But the puzzle is this: How do you make a series about the Silmarils, from beginning to end, without it being 20 movies long? None of us want it to turn out like Harry Potter: manufactured films, delivered right on time every time, diminishing the quality and realism. We want every one to be handled with love and devotion like it is in itself the only important story.
To everyone: Let us reconsider our ideas, and see if we can come up with something that would be about the Silmarils, and not be more than 4 movies long. I myself will probably do a skim of the Silmarillion to refresh myself.
This is how I think a Silmarillion Trilogy should be like (if someone is ever worthy of doing it)
The Silmarillion: The Tale of Beren and L’thien
Backstory-Morgoth stealing the Silmarils and the Battle of Sudden Flame
Backstory revealed during actual movie- explanations for Elven Immortality and Human mortality
The Silmarillion: The Children of H’rin
Backstory-The Battle of Unnumbered Tears
Backstory revealed during actual movie- The Oath of F’anor and the divisions between the Noldor and Sindar
The Silmarillion: The Akallab’th
Backstory-Fall of Gondolin, the War of Wrath, Fate of the Silmarils, Creation of Numenor
Backstory revealed during actual movie- origin of Morgoth and the forging of the rings of power
I know the Fall of Numenor is not part of the Silmarillion, but it was included in the book [i:665q7qk7]The Silmarillion[/i:665q7qk7] and besides there needs to be a unitied title (similar to the Lord of the Rings) to make it a movie trilogy, since everyone just loves movie trilogies so much
The Silmarillion: The Tale of Beren and L’thien
Backstory-Morgoth stealing the Silmarils and the Battle of Sudden Flame
Backstory revealed during actual movie- explanations for Elven Immortality and Human mortality
The Silmarillion: The Children of H’rin
Backstory-The Battle of Unnumbered Tears
Backstory revealed during actual movie- The Oath of F’anor and the divisions between the Noldor and Sindar
The Silmarillion: The Akallab’th
Backstory-Fall of Gondolin, the War of Wrath, Fate of the Silmarils, Creation of Numenor
Backstory revealed during actual movie- origin of Morgoth and the forging of the rings of power
I know the Fall of Numenor is not part of the Silmarillion, but it was included in the book [i:665q7qk7]The Silmarillion[/i:665q7qk7] and besides there needs to be a unitied title (similar to the Lord of the Rings) to make it a movie trilogy, since everyone just loves movie trilogies so much
[quote="Labrynian Rebel":3ccw1ix3]The Silmarillion: The Akallab’th
Backstory-Fall of Gondolin, the War of Wrath, Fate of the Silmarils, Creation of Numenor
Backstory revealed during actual movie- origin of Morgoth and the forging of the rings of power[/quote:3ccw1ix3]
The reigns of Morgoth and Sauron as "Dark Lords" are very separate, and should be treated as such. Trying to tie the Fall of Gondolin [i:3ccw1ix3]and[/i:3ccw1ix3] the War of Wrath into a single movie would already make for a very long movie, let alone starting up the entire cycle of Evil (after a break of several centuries). The Akallabeth would be possible in a trilogy-plus-one format, though I think the Quenta Silmarillion would itself require at least four films to be told properly.*
*On second though, I don't think it can be told properly at all. It's not a story or novel in anything resembling the common usage of the terms.
BTW, welcome to the forum! Happy posting.
Backstory-Fall of Gondolin, the War of Wrath, Fate of the Silmarils, Creation of Numenor
Backstory revealed during actual movie- origin of Morgoth and the forging of the rings of power[/quote:3ccw1ix3]
The reigns of Morgoth and Sauron as "Dark Lords" are very separate, and should be treated as such. Trying to tie the Fall of Gondolin [i:3ccw1ix3]and[/i:3ccw1ix3] the War of Wrath into a single movie would already make for a very long movie, let alone starting up the entire cycle of Evil (after a break of several centuries). The Akallabeth would be possible in a trilogy-plus-one format, though I think the Quenta Silmarillion would itself require at least four films to be told properly.*
*On second though, I don't think it can be told properly at all. It's not a story or novel in anything resembling the common usage of the terms.
BTW, welcome to the forum! Happy posting.
Pick a tale and adapt it into a movie. Each story has its own flavor. Film it that way. If we end up with twenty or so superb movies, that would be.... well... superb! 
Imagine a story set in Primeval Britain. Then another in Celtic Britain. Then another in Renaissance Britain. Then one... Hey! Think of the time gaps in the Silmarillion!
Yep! I say find the tale you like and film it according to the flavor Tolkien gave it at the time. Let's not bother LotRizing the Silmarillion - no smoothing and retrofitting!
.
The Silmarillion is a collection of myths and legends - some tales (including the poems T wrote) have more than one version! Choose the one you like, I say, and film it!
Imagine a story set in Primeval Britain. Then another in Celtic Britain. Then another in Renaissance Britain. Then one... Hey! Think of the time gaps in the Silmarillion!
Yep! I say find the tale you like and film it according to the flavor Tolkien gave it at the time. Let's not bother LotRizing the Silmarillion - no smoothing and retrofitting!
. The Silmarillion is a collection of myths and legends - some tales (including the poems T wrote) have more than one version! Choose the one you like, I say, and film it!
I'm not sure what you mean by "LotRizing" in the case of the Silmarillion Odo 
. It was constantly under revision, and if anything, both The Hobbit and LotR were "Silmarillionized" or at least attempted to.
But in any case, I mostly concur with how you suggest The Sil be filmed. Though I think in some cases some stories might be more suitable to be filmed as one story than others. For example: Ainulindale, Valaquenta, and the first 3 chapters of the QUenta Silmarillion (through The Coming of Elves and the Capture of Melkor could be one epic film that shows the creation of Middle Earth, Man and Elf (and possibly Hobbit) and Dwarf), and how Melkor betrayed Creation and his first capture. Each segment of this first movie could be chaptered and titled like the book. And following films could continue the chaptering in order.
I still think an "Animatrix" approach would be a good way to film the different stories, using various traditional and modern styles of Animation, but perhaps utilizing more and more Live Action as Middle Earth approaches the Third Age.
[b:17557263]GB[/b:17557263]
. It was constantly under revision, and if anything, both The Hobbit and LotR were "Silmarillionized" or at least attempted to.But in any case, I mostly concur with how you suggest The Sil be filmed. Though I think in some cases some stories might be more suitable to be filmed as one story than others. For example: Ainulindale, Valaquenta, and the first 3 chapters of the QUenta Silmarillion (through The Coming of Elves and the Capture of Melkor could be one epic film that shows the creation of Middle Earth, Man and Elf (and possibly Hobbit) and Dwarf), and how Melkor betrayed Creation and his first capture. Each segment of this first movie could be chaptered and titled like the book. And following films could continue the chaptering in order.
I still think an "Animatrix" approach would be a good way to film the different stories, using various traditional and modern styles of Animation, but perhaps utilizing more and more Live Action as Middle Earth approaches the Third Age.
[b:17557263]GB[/b:17557263]
Thinking about this some more, I feel torn as to what would be the best way to adapt the Silmarillion were that to be attempted. On the one hand, it's a bunch of stories grouped together into an anthology of sorts, which suggests some form of serialization. On the other hand, some of those stories are so epic that they would require feature length films to be shown with proper scale and grandeur. Part of me thinks that a series of films tied together by a TV series might work (better than the alternatives, at least).
Well, that's why a form of serialization that isn't strictly slavish to following precisely each chapter would be best. Obviously some stories like Beren and Luthien stand well enough alone. Whereas the first few chapters I mentioned would be best grouped together to form a cohesive story that starts with Creation and ends with the Capture of Melkor. There aren't any hard and fast rules here. A series of miniseries would be one way of pulling this off, as would special release DVD's (like the Animatrix).
[b:2fln1wlj]GB[/b:2fln1wlj]
[b:2fln1wlj]GB[/b:2fln1wlj]
If I were to film Caligula, and then someone else filmed the destruction of Rome 500 (or so) years later, and then someone else filmed the Life of Da Vinci, we would end up with three Italian stories. Why make a series? The test is to make good films. A serialization of the Silmarillion (serialized in any fashion!) would not only be to too hard to film in a consistent way, but also quite ridiculous to film in a consistent way. We don't want to see the same (dread) movie over and over again. Each story has it's (dare I say it?) [i:2k1nxsqt]flavour[/i:2k1nxsqt]! The Silmarillion is, as has been quite rightly recognized by both of you, a selection of tales from Tolkien's Mythos and Legendarium. Even if you didn't word it excatly this way, I take it this is what you meant. Forget series. Think: separate Masterpieces!
Exactly! I couldn't agree more. Serialization could work but it isn't a necessity. What is more important is combining chapters that tell a coherent story, or separating chapters that are complete stories in and of themselves. And that is what is cool about a franchise like the Matrix series. There is a main trilogy with live action and CGI, and the Animatrix which has historical segments, side stories, and personal interest stories (much like the Silmarillion)--each story in a distinctive style of traditional or CGI animation. The originator of this sort of format is the animated film Heavy Metal. I know I keep harping on it, but I think this is the model that would work best. It's sort of Zen ; the Non-serialized Serial.
[b:288ff4l1]GB[/b:288ff4l1]
; the Non-serialized Serial.[b:288ff4l1]GB[/b:288ff4l1]
Maybe.... but zen again...?
What can I say ? Life is Zen.
[b:34cl859x]GB[/b:34cl859x]
? Life is Zen.[b:34cl859x]GB[/b:34cl859x]
Zen we might agree - or do we?
The Zenmarillion: in which a cast of non-characters characterizes a serial that isn't serialized, and makes a series of movies that don't move! 
Sounds interesting. When is or isn't it out?
It is out when you think it is out ... but then, it is only back in. It's in your mind, yet it is out in the world. It is the movie that exists in the subconscious of millions around the world. It IS, yet it is NOT, for it has never been made. Yet it does not have to be, for it is eternal in our minds.
*wise nod*
*wise nod*
Come now, GB, stop pretending to be [i:1rgjxioa]Eldorion[/i:1rgjxioa]! I know who you are! You're a cunning Beard (as Beard's go), but you'll need to get up early in the day to fool this (Zen-like) bird-brain's eye! 
[i:1rgjxioa]Metaphysical [/i:1rgjxioa]claptrap, that's all it is you spruik! Metaphysical [i:1rgjxioa]claptrap[/i:1rgjxioa]! (It's [i:1rgjxioa]soo[/i:1rgjxioa] you, GB!)
You're a cunning Beard (as Beard's go), but you'll need to get up early in the day to fool this (Zen-like) bird-brain's eye! [i:1rgjxioa]Metaphysical [/i:1rgjxioa]claptrap, that's all it is you spruik! Metaphysical [i:1rgjxioa]claptrap[/i:1rgjxioa]! (It's [i:1rgjxioa]soo[/i:1rgjxioa] you, GB!)But I AM GB, or rather GB as he would have been, if he liked cats as much as I do. For who are we all, but facets of the diamond of humanity's existence? We but reflect a different hue of the true light. Once we look deep within ourselves we can see past the outer shells of other and observe the pure, shining brightness at our cores. There is no pretending involved.
I said STOP IT, GB! Ooooo Eldorion is going to be so (oh-so!) cross when he finds out!
Ooooo Eldorion is going to be so (oh-so!) cross when he finds out! But Eldorion already knows. For we are one, and one are we, and so everyone knows everything. You just have to take off your social blinders and soak in the knowledge.
(P.S. GB, I hope you don't take this personally.
)
(P.S. GB, I hope you don't take this personally.
)Yes, the Gnostic Cosmic Light at the center of Being shines brightly within us ALL . To the Zen Mind all illusion of separation is stripped away, the Many are One, and the One is Many. And Eldo is me as apparently he likes cats as much as I do .
[b:3ipspykl]GB[/b:3ipspykl]
. To the Zen Mind all illusion of separation is stripped away, the Many are One, and the One is Many. And Eldo is me as apparently he likes cats as much as I do .[b:3ipspykl]GB[/b:3ipspykl]
We are one in catness, dear GB.
Strange cats then! Yep, very strange! You sound like you're joined in some way... ( ) ... at the hip perhaps? Would that make you Siamese cats?
You sound like you're joined in some way... ( ) ... at the hip perhaps? Would that make you Siamese cats?Are there any cats in the Silmarillion?
[b:2a7h5r6s]GB[/b:2a7h5r6s]
[b:2a7h5r6s]GB[/b:2a7h5r6s]
There was Tevildo in the earliest drafts of The Book of Lost Tales. He was a bit silly but also quite fun to read about. He got replaced by a minor Necromancer known as Thu, later Sauron, however.
Think about how awesome LotR would have been if Tolkien never replaced Tevildo and Sauron was a giant cat!
He got replaced by a minor Necromancer known as Thu, later Sauron, however.Think about how awesome LotR would have been if Tolkien never replaced Tevildo and Sauron was a giant cat!
Although it's nice to get a larger audience interested in the film, and far more profitable, it would be awesome to see a Silmarillion movie that was intended for knowledgable fans and not "dumbed down" for people not familiar with the story. We all know how LOTR was simplified to reduce the number of characters/locations/events in order not to confuse people who didn't know what was going on. However, the Silmarillion has way more of all 3 and covers a huge time span, not to mention the main character would change every 10 minutes. It would be nice if characters/places could come and go freely with minimal introduction and just assume the audience knows the story, is what I'm trying to say. I just don't see a simplified version holding true to story at all. By all means this is just my opinion.
Forget a film and go for Tv- each episode can cover a different story, different characters and different time period- easy!
Is there any precedence for a TV series that has very few characters from episode to episode? The TV format would bring many advantages, but I'm not sure how the lack of a central narrative can be overcome. That said, I don't watch a lot of TV, so I'm not really sure how the media works.
Ive mentioned before in other threads that I believe that the only way justice can be given to a film version of the Sil- is for a serialization to be completed over many years. These could of course be viewed as one long feature (very long, around 15 hours) once completed. I simply cannot believe that a film trilogy could be completed without missing a lot of the history, meaning and subtleties of the book. The book reads as small interwoven stories, woven in and out of each other with many a carry over sub text. With the immortality of the Elves, the longevity of the Dwarves and Numanoreans and the brief span of men a visual version that is not confusing to the average viewer who knows nothing of Tolkiens world would be inherently difficult.... As with the Sil- book there would need to be a lead in to the yet to be made Hobbit movies and the LOTR's trilogy as well.
I absolutely agree with Brego.Serialisation is the only saviour.
Oh yes....would be great!!....can i play Luthien ?...please, please, please !!!.....ha, ha lol, only joking...guess there is big discussion about casting somewhere on this site ?...
I love the thought of a Silmarillion movie(s), but the one problem that arises is simply this: it is impossible to do it justice. Why? Because it is like trying to make a series of films about the history of the world, covering every aspect and every major event. It cannot be done correctly.
I would LOVE to see "The Silmarillion" be put to film, but it is guaranteed that every hardcore Tolkienite would be enraged in some way. "They didn't do Luthien right", "They totally screwed up the Destruction of the Lamps", "Feanor wasn't portrayed accurately", etc. There are too many characters and too much information to make a proper "Silmarillion" saga.
However...Felagund does have something there - doing stories within the main story. I love it! Personally, I have always loved the thought of someone (Peter Jackson, to be exact) making a film about Beren and Luthien's story, as well as the tale of Turin and Nienor. 
I agree with the posts that say Hollywood just couldn't do the silmarilion justsice, I also think that If it was made I would prefer to see it as an animation movie I think you could really capture the magic doing that maybe like the clone wars cartoons, but using far better quality animations more closer to ghost in the shell than cartoony. That way it would appeal to all ages.
True MM83, the Sil is like a piece of art not just a story. I just had a thought, has anyone ever scene the fabulous claymation version of Peter And The Wolf? It contains no narration at all, no voice work only music and movement.... The first chapter of the Sil could be all CGI with no words, just fabulous thematic music regarding the Vala, Maia and of course Iluvatar.
How about a movie covering the life of Feanor and his sons?
It would be tough to do The Silmarillion justice I think. How would the Vala and Iluvatar be represented? Maybe A black screen and beautiful music in the background.....I personally would love to see it on the big screen. But it would take forever, because the story is so deep. It would have to be a daily daily or weekly show on tv, or a really really long movie. I also would like to see The Children of Hurin at the movies too. But I don't think anyone has intentions of doing that.
Remember Disney's Fantasia! This is how I see the first section and up to the waking of the Elves in Cuivienen.... Gosh Im getting excited just thinking about it. There is a famous work by the famed Australian artist Rupert Bunny called "Summer Morning" which to me is a visualisation of Cuivienen albeit with great light, here is a link.
http://wolfandwillow.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a6a93724970b0133ed4fdaa8970b-pi
I would like to see a series of well thought out movies, properly and faithfully done, something that would please professor Tolkien.Realistically that would take so much money it is hard to comprehend it. Therefore, I wish that all interested directors, backers, producers, etc would join a guild a very noble guild that has great integrity of thought and purpose. I would like to see that guild work out by research and finally by vote with oaths of not buying one another or cheating, so that only those persons that the others feel would do justice to each movie would be the ones doing it. I think it would be marvellous to see how different groups would treat each part , there would be of course many, and I think we would be enchanted and pleased at the outcome. But alas, its up for grabs and who knows whether anything attempted would do justice to the body of work, or be a special effects embarrassing affair.
I have talked about this amongst other threads and I'm not actively and deliberately repeating threads but "transferring" relevant, hypothetical information that some were not privy to exchanging comment upon before as it would be interesting to see what newer, more current eyes and ears would have to say about this topic that I am eager to see realised upon film someday.
One thought occured to me recently, we see Peter Jackson and his producers telling the Lord of the Rings then moving progressively back to tell The Hobbit and here we are discussing the hypothetical scenario/s of moving ever-further back to such works as The Silmarillion and/or works in-between. I was thinking that perhaps this method is not such a bad thing after-all. Perhaps the best way to possibly tackle The Silmarillion is not, at first, to jump ALL the way back to the VERY beginning but more-or-less, two thirds of the way there. Tell, say, the middle section of what is perhaps filmable by these-day's standards and if/when those parts of The Silmarillion's story gains popular momentum, move steadily further and further back. Capturing the very ESSENCE of what The Silmarillion is, much like what George Lucas did originally for Star Wars: A New Hope. HOWEVER!!! if a production company was to do that, to learn from past actions and not embark upon a trilogy or how many films it could take if you were to start in the middle of The Silmarillion and create a series of films that come across like the Star Wars prequels; a lot of good technology, filming techniques, special effects but fundamentally a wooden, stillted-feeling running at the heart of the story arc. That and some "questionable" acting performances and directorial "problems" as I saw and felt help it to fall-short of its overall potential.
The technology now is ready to tell a story of I would say the second half or, as I said, two-thirds of The Silmarillion with the added intention of revisiting closer and closer the beginning as the film technology advances. It also makes commercial sense as well as film-fan gratification as you get the visual "concept" of The Silmarillion out there into the public domain and that of the public conciousness. Trying to make a couple of well filmed "begining" sections that would probably play out in a rather abstracted manner would perhaps be a hard sell at first for a second generation of film goers in tandem with "seasoned" LOTR's fans and up coming The Hobbit fans-to-be. Find a good point in The Silmarillion to go in at then try and realise the earlier parts still at a gradual later stage. It may take time to do it this way but pehaps that is better than alienating fans at first with what I would welcome to see with 2001: A Space Odyssey/abstracted film effects charting the "origins" of it ALL! Somehow realising "The Music" of Eru Illuvitar and of "The Firstborn" of his thoughts, Melkor, Manwe and all the rest of it. Then, over the course of two-or-three films, we get into what essentially looks like "Humanoid-looking" characters that come to be known as the Ainur (angels I guess), then their descendance to Ea (Earth) and the troubles/strifes that would follow with Morgoth, Ungoliant and thus all that ever-after follows suit. We lead-up to the so called "half-way" point at which the film makers came in and all the threads are nicely and neatly woven together in one GIGANTIC film tapestry that ecompasess the ENTIRE, FAR-reaching saga!!
That, perhaps, might be one of the best courses of action to take...
My template (well, one scenario for it) would play-out like this...
One possible way is to do the begining as one massive film cut into two parts The Quenta Silmarillion filmed as part 1 followed by part two. Part 1 of "Film One" encompassing in Aniulindale as one three hour, three and a half hour film then Part 2 of "Film One" covering the Valaquenta then the Quenta Silmarillion.
Or... A mammoth trilogy enterprise here...
(Trilogy One)
Where the film makers come in with the
third set of films to be made from the book
_____________________________________________
"Film One" of The Quenta Silmarillion could be filmed as:
"Film One" (part one) Aniulindale
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film One" (part two) Aniulindale
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
__________________________________
"Film Two" (part one) Valaquenta
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Two" (part two) Valaquenta
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
__________________________________
"Film Three" (part one) Quenta Silmarillion
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Three" (part two) Quenta Silmarillion
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
______________________________________________
And... (Trilogy Two?)
Somehow... It could be worked out...
Where the film makers come in with the
second set of films to be made from the book)
________________________________________________________
"Film Four" (part one) Of the Valar, The Elves and Men in Middle Earth
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Four" (part two) Of the Valar, The Elves and Men in Middle Earth
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
________________________________________________________
Then... (Trilogy Three)
Where the film makers come in with the first
set of films to be made from the book)
________________________________________________________
"Film Five" (part one) Of Beren, Luthien and the Ruin of Beleriand
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Five" (part two) Of Beren, Luthien and the Ruin of Beleriand
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
______________________________________________________
"Film Six" (part one) Of the Fall of Numenor and the Rings of Power
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length)
"Film Six" (part two) Of the Fall of Numenor and the Rings of Power
(between 3 and a half to 4 hours in length) !
Not forgetting DVDs which could contain more if necessary.
As I stated in the comments above this one, perhaps it would be a wise idea to start mid-way through The Silmarillion at the time of Beren & Luthien onwards to the end of the second-half of the book for the first set of trilogies to be made. Get audiences interested and salivating for more then, start to work progressively back towards the beginning of the books story and do all of the saga after the Quenta Silmarillion for the second set of trilogies. Finally leave that part (Aniulindale, Valaquenta and the Quenta Silmarillion) as an appedicies set of films (possibly set of appedicies) to commit to a movie form for the third set of trilogies. Each trilogy, although consisting of three mammoth films which are then cut in half as the Harry Potter film was and the last Twilight film was too they could all be filmed as one massive film trilogy project. it would take a while for each but you would dig into the guts of the book that way I think. By then, people and many fans (not all in all likely-hood) but many fans will want to know how the entire epic/biblical saga definitively got started in the first place.
