Diaz Soulbern began this thread with the following post.



Valedhelgwath replied

Welcome to Planet Tolkien, Diaz_Soulbern. At least around here you will find many other people who share opinion about the Silmarillion. Hope you take time to linger here and make yourself aquainted with a few of us.

I'm not too sure if you could really consider it his best work. First of all The Silmarillion was published post-humously and was edited by Christopher Tolkien. Secondly, it was pretty much a collection of all JRRT's works in establishing the history of Middle-earth throughout his life.

Furthermore in the foreward of the book, Christopher Tolkien mentioned that the later chapters were in "serious disharmony with more developed conceptions in other parts of the book". So editing had to be done, which makes it, theoretically, not completely JRRT's work.

Also, as much as I love the book, it does seem dry at certain points due to the approach taken by Tolkien. He was in fact writing as if it were historical records rather than telling a tale. This made the book catered towards the serious fans of his work in LOTR more than the generic fantasy reader.

If you take all these into consideration, then perhaps it isn't exactly his best work after all...

I'm not saying that the work isn't written in an interesting style, because it certainly is. I am saying, however, that it was written in a very detached sort of way, similar to Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea Quartet, so you never really have an opportunity to explore the characters in depth. The Earthsea Quartet had the priviledge of focusing on one central character whereas the Silmarillion had so many characters it made it difficult to digest in one reading.

I had hardcore fantasy fans dropping the book in the middle because they felt it was too dry and there were too many characters making brief appearances that it became a little distracting. Undoubtedly the sense of realism was present. Then again, you also experience realism when you read historical texts. All I'm saying is that unless you are a big fan of Tolkien, and you are truly interested in the world that he has created and the history that he has established, you probably wouldn't read the book. If that's the case, can you still consider it his best work when it cannot sustain the interest of a casual reader?

Secondly, The Silmarillion, or rather the various stories within, were never written in chronological order. They were written separately from one another and therefore had discrepancies and needed editing to harmonise it with the restof the book. You even mentioned, and I quote,

"was edited because it needed to be. If it did not, it wouldn't have been"

It NEEDED to be edited. There were conflicts. Things did not make sense. If a writer produced works that did not make sense, would you consider it a good piece of work? Unless all the rest of his books were trashy material, maybe it would be fair to label it his best. But it wasn't. LOTR was meticulously crafted, leaving you with hardly any questions or doubts about its main plotlines (notwithstanding the historical background of the world and the enigmatic Tom Bombadil).

The Silmarillion is a marvelous book. But is it truly Tolkien's best work? Did he not create a more accessible and varied world, holding various plotlines and having fantastic characters which were brought to life through his writings in LOTR?

Did Tolkien not create scenes of magnificence in one moment and brought the reader to an intimate encounter with various individual characters the next? That was what, in my humble opinion, make LOTR a better work than Silmarillion. Oh, and did I mention the fact that it was written as a SINGLE story over a thousand pages long, and yet managed to sustain the interest of the reader throughout?

Your points are well taken Erkenbrand, but I have to disagree as well. For one, just because the Silmarillion was published after Tolkien died, does not mean that it detracts anything from its greatness. The Silmarillion was Tolkien’s life work, and I believe he intended it to be his greatest creation. Tolkien began working on the Silmarillion in1917, and continued to work on it throughout his entire life. He never stopped working on it, and to me, clearly that shows that this was something very special to him. Further, Christopher even states in his foreword that the Silmarillion ’became the vehicle, and depository of his profoundest reflections’. Also, personally I feel that the fact that the Silmarillion was edited by Christopher Tolkien, doesn’t take anything away from the work either. The Silmarillion is still J.R.R.’s creation. He wrote the stories, he created the characters, that world, the history, the language, etc’ and just because Christopher organized it into a more cohesive, publishable form doesn’t mar, or change that fact.

You’re right that the Silmarillion is a collection of stories, and that the various stories within were never written in a chronological order, but in my opinion, this is exactly why the Silmarillion is his greatest work. It’s not just a wrinkle in time; it’s the entire history of Ea, and to me that makes it so much deeper than anything else of his I have ever read. It’s precisely the depth, scope, and magnitude of the Silmarillion that makes it his greatest work. I have to agree with Diaz_Soulbern in that; the Silmarillion might not be your choice for his greatest work (and I respect that), but I value it above LOTR, because I also have gotten more from it. There’s no denying that if one reads the Silmarillion, one’s knowledge of Ea, of Middle Earth, and of the events, and characters concerning LOTR becomes tenfold. Again, it’s the scope, and the depth of the Silmarillion that make it his greatest work for me. I also enjoy the stories in the Silmarillion more as well, but that’s just me.

Let’s not forget that at the end of the day, we are all Tolkien fans, and we all share that common bond. Each of us is going to have a favorite character, story, or work of Tolkien’s that might differ from another’s opinion, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, in fact, it’s critically healthy. However, I feel that it is still entirely possible for one to think that the Silmarillion is Tolkien’s greatest work despite the fact that it may not hold the interest of the casual reader, because it all comes down to one’s personal opinion.

It was certainly a pleasure evaluating Tolkien's works with fellow fans. One of the most interesting aspects of his works is that it is actually worth discussing to great length, and that's what displays the magnitude of his creations.

Diaz_Soulbern and Elfstone, both of you have given me a an insight into what lovers of the Silmarillion think. I do agree with what you have pointed out. Perhaps you would also like Unfinished Tales, a continuation of Tolkien's life work. Or even the 12 volume History of Middle Earth, which is a collection of all the notes and stories written by JRR and edited (with commentary) by Christopher Tolkien.

Thanks for the discussion! I had fun sharing my thoughts

I've just spent the last five minutes trying to edit some "number junk" out of your last post Diaz. It was there in the post, but when I went to edit it, it was not there in the text. It had me rather baffled until I realised you were editing it at the same time as I was trying to do it.

The junk was appearing where you were using apostraphies (most likely after pasting a Word document). It wasn't recognising Straight apostrophies so was replacing them with code. Simply editing them with our own apostropies would have been sufficient.

Well done to Elfstone, whose post I eventually chose. Well done to Diaz and Erkenbrand too, though, because as I mentioned, it was a hard choice picking one from the three.

Interesting thoughts Prog, I enjoyed reading your opinion on the matter. Shout’s out to Erkenbrand, and Diaz_Soulbern, it’s been a pleasure to be involved with such great discussion!

Erkenbrand, I like what you had to say about Tolkien’s work being worth discussing at great length, I couldn’t agree with you more. Also, you seem to be extremely well read in Tolkien (much more than I am), so I have to give you full credit for that. I have only read the Hobbit, and LOTR several times each. As already stated, I’m currently reading the Silmarillion for the first time now, and I’m also just starting The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, UT is next on my list though!

Val, thanks again for the recognition, and I’m glad you enjoyed reading our discussion. I think you said it best Powerful-Elf-Shadow, ’Beauty is in the eye of the beholder’!

Many thanks for the clarification. I attempted to edit it twice and eventually got them all. I can see now the probabilty of that program jump causing mix ups.

I don't know Erkenbrand and ProgHead777...I read Tolkien's letter to his editor before and after reading the actual book more than once and I must dissagree. I referred to the letter many times throughout reading, almost as many times as the bloodlines and maps heh.
I got the feeling he would be pleased, perhaps a little perturbed he wasn't there to clarify some things and present it, but certainly not turning over in his grave. I think his son did a wonderful job of bringing it to this generation. Furthermore I do consider it the greatest Fantasy novel ever written, and will for some time I'm sure.

Of course, I've said all this before. And we all have our own respective opinions.

Anyone other than me reading the War of The Spider Queen series?