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Thread: Got to give it to her...

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Totally agreed Mr T. Liv Tyler talking Elvish does funny things to me! We are talking serious goose bumps! And the Flight to the ford scene was ssooooooooo Good! "If you want him come and Claim him!" Hooray for Liv, she rocks like a wooden horsey thing on rockers!
Hahaha, to true *taz
i concur regarding ms tyler's undoubted charms, but what of ms blanchett? i always felt that galadriel was the sexier of the two, and old cate didn't disappoint. teach one a thing or three, i reckon.
Aaaurgh! She DID say it then! Excuse me while I shoot myself...
Yes, she did, she does! Oh it was dreadful. I can't live this lie any longer, I have a confession to make. So exasperated was I with the Arwen thing that I walked out for a fag ... And a quick G & T. There, I've said it. That feels better.
You walked out!!!!! How?
And I have to apologise for supprting Cate Blanchett so fervently, I though she was complete arse as Galadriel in the end. Looked pretty but didn't pull off the character at all.
Errr, maybe he/she got off his/her backside & headed towards the exit? *stupid But well done Bangrod, for coming clean like that.

Dunno, I'm contemplating whether or not to walk out when I finally get to see it. Kinda like a protest know, stomp out when Arwen does her Glorfindel bit. Of course, I'd buy tickets for the next day too, so I can see the movie in full. *ungoliant
blah...didn't like her. Maybe it's just that I don't like Liv Tyler very much, but I wasn't really impressed. She did make the elvish language stuff sound convincing, I'll give her that much credit, I guess
Don't care what anyone says, Liv was great. Especially when she speaks Elvish, gor blimey guv it does strange things to my soul.
Squirrel chap, you're slave to your hormones. Not that i blame you, of course.
If one has to be slave to something, I can't think of anything better than hormones. Big Smile Smilie
I'm no slave to hormones, alcohol perhaps, but not hormones. Tis not Liv looking good, she just has such a haunting quality to her voice when she speaks elvish, she could look like Benny Hill, and I'd still be entranced.
*Plastic i know what you mean i think Liv did a great job being an elf!! her first appearence in the light and then ... the elvish talk... wow... i was lost in a swom of.. err... well... it was just great the whole use af language was very good!! they deffinatly have done there homework on that one and spent a lot of time one it! it just sounded so kewl!! (thats even an understatement) it was clearly one of the best things in the movie(which weren't to many represented)
Too true mate!
I loved Liv in the movie..
But I have to wonder, which of the languages does she speek when she speaks elvish? Sindarin? Qennya? etc etc Smile Smilie

I would like to know the specifics hehehehe,
I am trying to learn tengwar, I have began searching for many text and helps Smile Smilie

Any help would be great!

Smile Smilie
There's a handy URL posted somewhere in this Forum on that very subject. I'd have thought that given her heritage, Arwen would speak both Quenya and Sindarin, though I have no idea which one they used....
Neither have I, but there is a thread here somewhere, under the name of "Elvish", with some links added by Chika. I think they are really useful. Wink Smilie
As for Arwen and stuff, Liv Tyler was fantastic as Arwen, but Cate Blanchett was awful as Galadriel. A disappointment to me, that was. Sad Smilie
Wow, that's a really long post for me to argue what's essentially a moot point. There's just something about this board that brings out the blabbermouth in me.
The elvish sounded great. Just like they spoke it every day! Smile Smilie

Arwen is Elrond's daughter, and I think she is mentioned somewhere during the council, but that's her only part in FotR. So I'm not surprised you don't remember her being in there, lady_arwen (funny, this!). I had to think back for a while too... Smile Smilie But Liv played her part very well. The Bruinen scene was excellent! I enjoyed it very much! Smile Smilie
I like your name, lady_arwen! It's just too bad that your namesake is so badly, badly underwritten. I mean, as the wife of the King of Gondor, she's arguably the foundress of the Fourth Age. She's so important, and we know so little about her!
Jehanne: Open "The Return of thr King" to Appendix A, some where around page 381, you will find Part (V) "Here Follows a Part of the Tale of Argagorn and Arwen" and for the next nine and a half pages you get a tad bit more info about her, how the met, etc.
Cool Smilie
Yeah, he does give us a bit, slightly more than he tells us about the hobbits' pipeweed. Smile Smilie Okay, I'm exaggerating, but it frustrates me that we have to go to an appendix to find out about a woman who was Queen of Gondor, daughter of one of the most powerful elf-lords, and granddaughter of the bearer of Nenya (a powerful woman in her own right). We don't get to see her do or say or think very much, and the bits that we do get are interesting. I want more. There's an interesting woman there, I'm sure, but we only see bits. Which is totally my 20th century sensibilities affecting my reading, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating to me that Tolkien was so much a man of his generation when it comes to portraying women. I don't blame him, but I can't help but feel a twinge. The book's written, Tolkien's dead, it is what it is and it is great, but my dissatisfaction remains.

I mean, after the elves left Middle Earth and human children were born who could only know them in stories, some peasant could show his sons and daughters the royal portrait and says "Young Bob (or Kate or whatever), once there were elves in this land, beautiful and magical as Arwen Evenstar." But, as a reader, I find her as distant and unknowable as that peasant would find her. We get glimpses, but little more than that.

Or so I feel. You don't have to agree. I'm a bit of a zealot for well-defined female characters, be they housewives or warrior queens. I have a very cool mother.
*cough, cough* don't mean to be picky or nuffink but s'the 21st Century now Jehanne......
True. But I've only spent a couple of years in the 21st century and over 20 in the 20th. So I'm stuck in the last century, like Tolkien, ha ha ha.

I've just noticed that most of my posts are a bit rant-y. 'Sfunny, I don't do that in real life. Oh well...
I think part of the reason Arwen's character is not gone into so deeply, especially in LotR, is that she wasn't really so much a part of the plot. Probably, if the book had talked about the 4th age in more depth, then her character would have been expanded. I don't remember who it was that said this, but somebody was saying about how there was lots of little details that weren't truly necessary to the story, and sometimes they got a little tough to get through. I think it would have been silly to go into depth about a character that really didn't influence the story very much.
That is the purpose of this forum, for us to post our questions and opinions; whether we can do so in three two-syllable words or whether we blather (which Jehanne can not be accused of) doesn't matter.

I do find long winded statements are usually a tad bit easier to read if they are broken into shorter paragraphs, but that is just my own personal preference. (My trifocals often lead me astray on a screen full of text.)

Oh, and your arguments do make sense, except that to achieve the version of the LOTR that you desire, would require it to be written by a women of the 80's or 90's and then it might not have become the classic that we love today. Smile Smilie
And we're grateful for it Smile Smilie
Do you not find characters like Melian or Nienor to be quite well developed female charcters then?
Grondmaster- Actually, it probably wouldn't make me any happier if LOTR had been written by a modern woman postAuthorID. The Mists of Avalon, arguably the LOTR of feminist-biased fantasy, has always bothered me because it leans too far in the other direction. The women are sharply drawn, but the men are vague, stereotypical, oversimplified, etc etc. So that's not any better, and it's just as common as the Tolkienian style. I want balance, darn it!

Oh, and I can totally be accused of blathering- just ask my students! "God, will she ever shut UP?! Who cares, all of these people are dead. Just give me my grade already!"

Plastic- actually, I was thinking of those two (and a couple of others) when I mentioned that his minor women proved he /could/ write well-developed female characters. But neither one of them is exactly a major character. They're walk-ons. Concerning the ladies, he often viewed the bit players in close-up and the leads through cheesecloth. [Edited on 22/1/2002 by Jehanne]
Yeah, I was trying to think of some really good ones, and I couldn't, so I tried them out. Big Smile Smilie Oh well.....
Jehanne...great post...I don't usually do much more than skim big posts, but I actually read yours, and I was impressed.

Have you ever read, umm, I have a title in my mind, but I don't remember if it is the title of the series or one of the books or what, I think it's called, the "Ruins of Ambrai"? From what I remember of it, there were strong male characters and strong females.
I don't have time to read all the posts longer than the one above, so I'm afraid I didn't really got into your point, Jehanne. But I guess what you're saying is that Tolkien didn't develop most of his female characters into realistic personalities. Right? Then I must say I agree. Smile Smilie
Someone might have more time to read the longer posts if they spent less time posting to topics that don't require any additional comments, just to increase her personal statistics. :P
JHave you ever read, umm, I have a title in my mind, but I don't remember if it is the title of the series or one of the books or what, I think it's called, the "Ruins of Ambrai"? From what I remember of it, there were strong male characters and strong females.

Just in case anyone is interested in reading them, Melanie Rawn wrote, or is writing, the Exiles Trilogy. I have read "The Ruins of Ambrai" and "The Mageborn Traitor". Both brilliant, original and fascinating books. The essence of quality fantasy. Can't wait to get my hands on book 3!
Someone might have more time to read the longer posts if they spent less time posting to topics that don't require any additional comments, just to increase her personal statistics. :P

Yeah, and not waste my time by making me read all the topics.
And you said sth about me, Grondy? Big Smile Smilie

Noooo! Not more good books to read!! I don't have time!!! Smile Smilie