I dont know about the rest of you, but I just couldn't resist when I saw that this thread had been re-activated.

Allyssa's rule no. 1 for remaining sane:





Okay, the balrog was not likely to be falling vertically face down, because if it was, it would not have been able to lash at Gandalf accurately with its whip. It would not have been able to see him. It is actually quite difficult to use a whip as a weapon.

I think it was likely falling feet first, so that it could look up and see where it was lashing.

Another point: It was able to lash its whip. I have seen demonstrations of this. It requires considerable room to crack a whip, therefore, there must have been a very substantial amount of room around the balrog as it fell. If there wasenough room to crack a whip, there should have been enough room to spread wings, and slow decent. There goes the "not enough room" argument.

No wings.

No, the Balrog pulled Gandalf after it with much malice afore thought. After all, it was an evil being.

If it had room to swing a whip, why didn't it have room to spread its wings? (if it had wings?)

No wings. Unless they were imaginary or composed of shadow only.

Yes, I believe they were composed of shadow, as was the rest of the Balrog, making it a WINGED shadow-stuff creature! And I still say the best argument for the Balrog having wings is because they make it look so COOL!!

(Keep in mind this is all in fun. I really couldn't care less!)

Oh very funny. It climbed up there like a cat or a squirrel might (they don't have wings either). Incidentally, on a re-watching of Bakshi's mighty fine Lotr movie the other night, I noticed that his very much winged Balrog, actually flies onto the bridge to fight Gandalf and then falls into the chasm, evidently forgetting he could fly. Laugh? I very nearly soiled myself!

And this changes things how? Surely he could still spin round and come up flying?

Val: Go back and read the two paragrapghs before the one you quoted; however, you will have better luck if you do so in the RotK--and yes I know you only typed "TT" because it is now in everybody's mind. Rednell quoted the two paragraphs in her post of 6/7/2002 at 15:57 in this thread.

For a difinitve, but long winded essay on the amibguity of the wingedness of the Balrog, read Plastic Squirrel's post of 18/1/2002 at 17:04 in the thread the belrog also under Fellowship of the Ring.

Grondy: Val may have more luck if he reads FOTR really....
*despairs of his fellow council members ability to remember books*

I always thought Balrogs had wings, I don't know if they are flying wings or not though.

slap*I hope that didn't hurt much*
The Balrog do have wings but it seems like it can't use them just like pingwins!

This is one of those subjects that will go on and on and on forever!

Hey, maybe some Balrogs have wings and some don't, just like the Dragons.

In TT, when they fall, you can clearly see the balrog wing bones and if you look closely you can see a thin see-through layer streached out between the "fingers" where the skin should be. Shadow wings! And shadows can't fly..

Maybe the wings are just for show, to attract female Balrogs so they can reproduce.

I think all the early dragons were flightless. I cannot find a passage in the Sil or UT to confirm this but both Foster's complete guide to ME and Tyler's Complete Tolkien companion agree with it.

From Tyler's CTC
From Foster's CGTME

These quotes can be validated by comparing two passages from the Silmarillion, the first from the fall of Gondolin in FA 511 and the second from the Great Battle some years later. and then from the Great Battle a few years later