I don't feel sorry for them at all. They had a pretty easy time prancing around moors and marshes, bullying Gollum along the way. Frodo eventually completed his quest, with the help of Gollum. And as someone said earlier, Sam went home, married Rosie, had million of kids, became mayor & eventually got 'knighted' by Aragorn. Whereas poor old Gollum -who's been suffering for 500 years - fell into a volcano.

The only time I started to feel sorry for Frodo was when he realised he couldn't stay in the Shire. But that's in RotK.

As to whether Sam'll be nicer to Gollum - I doubt it. I hope so, but that would eventually mean changing the reasons why Gollum succumbed to the pull of the ring at the end. Rosie pointed out that Gollum almost relented at the last minute, but Sam's harsh attitude towards him changed his mind. If Sam was nicer to Gollum, then it would mean that Gollum betrayed them because he was inherently evil, not due to any extenuating circumstances. PJ would probably go down that route too, to absolve Sam from any guilt.

Mini-Gollums in a mini-Gollum gun? Oh man, I want one! That would come in so handy!

I actually kinda see what you mean, Swampfaye. I never felt sorry for Frodo (or Sam) in the book, except for the fact that that Frodo couldn't stay home in the Shire (I hated that). All things considered, the quest turned out pretty well for them (especially for Sam, unless you like slash fan fic...). But in the movie, yeah, I do kinda dread what they have coming. And it's totally because Elijah Wood looks so young and breakable, and Sean Astin is so plump and sturdy-looking. Poor little guys. Good casting, if they can make /me/ feel maternal (because I'm really not). So yeah, for me anyway, I do feel sorry for movie-Frodo and Sam, but only movie-Frodo and Sam (not the book ones). These darn films are going to give me multiple personalities.

That just proves what we knew all along, Frodo is a nice guy, 'cause nice guys don't flip the bird, or birds even, for that matter.

I feel sorry for Frodo because he has to carry the heavy burden, especially in RotK. But most of all because he can't just return to the Shire and live on in peace. The wounds of the Mordor knife and Shelob still remain, making him sick and eventually make him leave the Shire and his best friend. In the movie, before Frodo enherites the Ring, he is a young man, full of joy and happiness. I regret he never feels that happiness again after his quest.

The only time I felt sorry for Sam is when he thinks Frodo is dead (even though I know he isn't) and when Frodo and Sam have to part at the Grey Havens.

I was relieved when I read Sam also travels to the West after Rosie died. I hope Sam and Frodo eventually meet again.

I just want to add a small comment on Gollum. I don't think Sam is to blame for the betrail of Gollum. Gollum and Smeagol were always competing. The closer they get to Mordor and Mount Doom, the more Gollum dominates. He already made his mind up leading them to Shelob. He would have done it anyhow. I think the Ring plays a role here. Remember Gandalf always said: it wants to be found. I think the Ring 'knows' Frodo wants to detroy it. It tries to escape Mount Doom. His only change is Gollum (and not Smeagol). So I believe it manipulates Gollums mind. If Gollum would clame the Ring his own, the Eye would know and Gollum would be to weak to resist. So, I don't think we have to blame Sam for Gollums behaviour.

*applauds*
Well done, gnampie, fair comment!

Well, I had a little discussion with Tom about this. You see, I am not so convinced Frodo’s mission would have failed if Gollum hadn’t been there. Of course they needed Gollum to get to Mount Doom, but maybe not to destroy the Ring. I think maybe Sam could have talked Frodo into destroying the Ring. Gollum took the chance away for Frodo to give up the Ring by free will. Maybe if Sam had been given a chance to talk to Frodo, Frodo could have voluntarily given up the Ring. If I remember well, at some point Gandalf says the Ring didn’t do so much harm to Bilbo because he was the only one who had the strength to give up the Ring by free will. So Gollum biting the Ring of Frodo’s hand might be one of the factors that caused Frodo’s suffering afterwards.

Smeagol's got the riing!! Smeagol's got the riing!! Aieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Part of Frodo's heartache was the self-accusation that he gave into the power of the ring, requiring Gollum to destroy it, even if by accident. Frodo felt Gollum's death was on his hands, not realizing that Gollum probably would have gone stark raving bonkers once the ring hit the fire, requiring Sam to bloody his hands defending his master from Gollum's mad attack.

I wasn’t talking about Elijah Wood’s character with the big blue baby eyes. I was talking about the Frodo from the book, who I always thought of as a very strong person. I must admit I was so disappointed he failed to throw the ring in the fire himself. He had been so strong all the way to Mordor. It’s such a pity he couldn’t do that. So perhaps thinking if Sam had been there with him, Frodo might have found the strength to throw the ring in himself, is my way of dealing with this disappointment. Maybe when I read the book a couple of times more I will be able to face the fact that Frodo was to weak at that time.
And I don’t like the way Gollum treats others. Even when he first sees the ring he kills his friend only to posses the ring himself. He didn’t even knew what it could do. I always thought he was a weak person and I did feel sorry for him. He missed so much. All he ever cared about was that ring. He even didn’t like life. Frodo had almost been able to change this. Gollum liked Frodo, but still he wanted to continue with his plan only to get his precious back. I know the ring itself has a lot to do with this, as I said before. But I must admit I silently hoped he would have fallen into his own trap and Shelob would have eaten him. I don’t think Sam treated Gollum bad. He didn’t trust him and he was right about that. He never hurt him unless to defend Frodo or himself. I think if Sam had reacted on Gollum the way Frodo did, both would have been death before they even got to Shelob.

My god! You people didn't even like the book, did you?!

I felt very sorry for all of them at one point or another. In the chapter "The Stairs Of Cirith Ungol" in TTT, there's a scene with Gollum that made me feel very sorry for him. For a second, looking at Sam and Frodo sleeping, Gollum realises what he's become and recognizes in the two hobbits what he's never had himself, thanks to the ring: friendship and loyalty.




Then Sam wakes up and snaps at him, yet it's hard to blame Sam. Being the simple farmer type he doesn't see any good in Gollum, although Frodo can. I think Gollum may be one of the most tragic figures in LotR. Agree?

[Edited on 8/3/02 by ProgHead777]

Me too, now the poor little guy can't make so many rude gestures. Seriously though, this is one of the only parts in the entire LotR story that I actualy felt sorry for the little guy Poor Frodo.



Well, on his finger anyways

Okay, I had another inspiration on the story behind that ballad:

Poor old Gollum didn't show up in time; he was off rooting for grubs and stuff for his breakfast, and got there too late. Meanwhile, Frodo and Sam have made their way to the Crack of Doom. Frodo puts the ring on, just for one last time, for old time's sake, and then try as he might, he can't get it back off, and Sauron has noticed him, and now Frodo knows it. Frodo is frantic!!!

'Sam! Do something!! I can't get it off!!!'

'Alright Mr. Frodo, just you calm down and give me you hand.'

Frodo places his invisible hand into Sam's. Sam proceeds to bite off the finger, ring, and all, which he then spits-out over the edge into the molten lava below.

And the story then continues as Old JRR wrote it, except Gollum now makes his way to Ithilien where, with Faramir's blessing, he retires in a hidden grotto where the sunlight's subdued and the fisheses are fat and bountiful. So now they all, live happily ever after, even if some of them have to sail off into the sunset in order to find their final happiness.

*sniff, sob*

That's beautiful Grondy.

Boring: Who among us, wouldn't sacrifice a finger or even our lives, if it truly meant a great evil against the world would be ended for all time? Yes, there is sadness in that, but also a sense of glory, in the knowing that we had done the right thing. Of course it all depends on your system of values; I'm a romantic at heart and always hope the good guys win.